 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: haberc
Date: 2006-10-24 00:36
Looking for info on H Couf Royalist Bb Clarinet. I just purchased one, serial # C1234. Plays very nice. I'm looking for info on age and value of this instrument
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2006-10-24 01:59
Mr. Herbert Couf phoned me on 9/13/09 and asked that I delete my post.
Post Edited (2009-09-15 16:19)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-10-24 11:33
I should point out that (at least in his saxophone models) the "Royalist" was the student model and was NOT made by Keilwerth (only the "Superbas" were) -- the Royalist was Asian-made. The same might hold true for the clarinet line.
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Author: haberc
Date: 2006-10-24 22:14
Thanks for your message. The clarinet I have is stamped 'made in Germany'
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-10-25 02:09
Probably made by Ernst Schreiber, then -- in other words, same as the old Evette & Schaeffer/current Buffet B-12 (I think -- I'm not that conversant with Buffets model numbers these days).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-25 13:48
TKS for that Detroit Mich history, R K, I'd often wondered about the earlier Det Synphony, as I left Lansing in 1941 for the "wilds" of OK. I have a fine-playing Eb Sop mp, marked H Couf which I wont let go of ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2006-10-25 14:28
I studied with Herb Couf in the late 1950s, while he was still in the Detroit Symphony. He had just opened his music shop in Royal Oak, MI, it was called "The Royal Music Center," and had a great selection of instruments, reeds, and accessories. During lessons he would often run out to attend to a customer, and hopefully sell a horn. My lessons were always one hour plus.
Herb was a virtuoso teacher. He played every great Orchestral excerpt from memory, often on his Bb Clarinet transposing the solo for A Clarinet!
Then moments later pick up his Alto Sax and sound like Paul Desmond or Charlie Parker. When the Symphony was on strike, I heard Herb play with a small Jazz group at a local club. He was a truly gifted musician.
He treated all of us like adults, often with harsh criticism, and much sarcasm. I learned how to play the clarinet from Herb Couf.
A few years ago I flew out to Detroit to visit Herb and his wife. He seemed happy to see me, and we spent quite a few hours talking about "the good old days." I told him he had been pretty tough on us...he said we needed it as that's what we'd get in the real music world...how right he was!
His COUF-Keilwerth saxes were quite good, and some guys here in NYC still bring them to dates occasionally.
When I left the Detroit area in 1963, Herb had left the Symphony and was doing great business with his Shop. His "going away" gift to me was a Buffet Bb Clarinet, in a Buffet Alto Sax case with Buffet Flute (a gift he had set up with my Father)...Herb got a full wardrobe in return.
I used those horns to "break-into" the NYC scene.
So, thanks Herb, you're the best!!!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-10-25 14:39
John J. Moses wrote:
> He had just opened his music shop in
> Royal Oak, MI, it was called "The Royal Music Center," and had
> a great selection of instruments, reeds, and accessories.
The store is still going strong and has the best selection of woodwind music in the Detroit area (the only real competitor to Royal was Aldo Moro's shop out on the East side with huge stacks of music and instruments galore, but Aldo unfortunately passed away a few years back and the shop is gone).
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2006-10-25 14:45
Thanks, Mark. I'm afraid to ask...is dear Herbie still around? I'd make another trip out there just to thank him for the last 35+ years of success in the music world. It was his help that put me here.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-10-25 14:53
Hi John and Ralph,
Thanks for the update on Detroit stores and Herb. I remember several neat little places downtown on John R. I think.
Ralph, we need to meet at Royal some Saturday and look over things and then retire to one of the great delis you told me about in your hometown. John, maybe you'll drop in and join us and Mark, you can come, too. Man, four clarinetists at the same deli booth could be trouble. Check your egos (and reed knives) at the door.
HRL
PS As I become familiar again with Detroit, I realize it is really a great city for music and always has been. Baker's used to be a primo jazz spot.
Post Edited (2006-10-25 16:09)
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2006-10-25 15:15
"Baker's used to be a primo jazz spot."
What about "Checker's Keyboard Lounge," and the famous "Minor Key?"
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: William Hughes ★2017
Date: 2006-10-25 16:07
There is a Herbert Couf shown in on-line directories at a Farmington Hills, MI address.
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Author: hinotehud ★2017
Date: 2006-10-25 18:38
This is also off topic but what a great thread about Herb Couf. I studied with Herb from 1962-64 while I attend Royal Oak Dondero HS. He charged only $3.50 a lesson! The standard rate for ordinary teachers at that time was $2.50. You could tell what kind of mood he was in by what he smoked. If it was a pipe, yeah, he was in a good mood. If it was a cigar, you better have practiced! But even when he was in a bad mood, I only have fond memories of him. He sure could double tongue! He became a vice president of Armstrong in the '70's.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-10-25 20:06
Hi Everyone,
I really enjoy these kinds of musings and what better place than the clarinet BB. Too many of these great teachers have passed away but the stories and legends live on through this telling.
There was a thread about old music stores several years ago. I really miss the crusty old repairmen (it was men at the time) and the wonderful drawers behind the counter with all the cool mouthpieces and "stuff." And the "stuff" down in the basement! Like a museum or Eric Satterlee's repair emporium in MI.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=122570&t=122489
HRL
Post Edited (2006-10-25 20:07)
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-02-28 23:04
Ralph Katz wrote:
> Also deleting this.
>
>
> Post Edited (2009-09-14 00:39)
too bad it is gone..
Herbert Couf died on July 8, 2011
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2014-03-01 18:05
Before Mr. Couf's funeral, his son-in-law asked if I was one of the people who loved him or of the ones who hated him, but my attendance should have been the measure of that. I never studied with him but my friends who did all played very well. Going to his store was always a treat, but friends who worked there later on told interesting stories. His staff stayed on forever, which should say a lot. I surely miss having a local vendor with an extensive sheet music, reed and mouthpiece selection but these brick-and-mortar stores are going by the wayside all over the country.
Mr. Couf called me out of the blue - his daughter saw my post and told him about it. He called me to say it was all untrue and I should delete it. All the people who supplied that information are dead and there was no personal point in keeping the post.
Two friends who worked for the importing business at Royal Music took time off to go to Japan and on a dare bluffed their way into Yamaha, ending up with an exclusive importing agreement for Orff instruments. Regardless of the lack of competition, Herb fired them. This is the story I got, anyway.
When Herb sold his businesses (store, importing, mouthpieces, instruments), rights to his name went with it. At some point in retirement he thought about developing new mouthpieces, only to find no musical products could be sold which referenced his own name and I expect he dropped the idea.
Years earlier, I strongly disliked my junior high band director and switched to choir. A younger friend who much later worked at Royal said his doctor suggested he join the Royal Oak Concert Band under Herb. Their sax soloist was a shoe salesman in Clauson who had the most gorgeous sound I had ever heard. A bassoonist, who later ended up in the Cleveland Orchestra, was a cab driver and sight-read concerts note-perfect. My friend and I sat in the basement of the clarinet section, but woodshedded together every day. By the first concert, we could cover all the notes in "Beatrice and Benedict", not an insignificant accomplishment for a couple of kids. We both ended High School as concertmasters of the ROCB, so I can only say that it was a great experience.
Post Edited (2014-03-07 07:16)
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-03-01 21:48
Ralph thnx so much for posting.
I understand the complexity of posting on WWW, and how easy to smear someones name.. esp if the story is told from different point of view.
But to those who object here is the point: you live you die.. and if someone doesn't tell the stories of your life, it would be like you never existed, right?
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2014-03-05 00:02
I love reading about the old guard, there has been so much lost. When I see the post deleted notes above, it just makes me sad. I just can't imagine that Ralph would said anything in a mean-hearted way. I suppose there is a book in Mr. Couf's life story besides the very short obit:
http://deathnotices.michigan.com/view-single.php?id=272238
His wikipedia page is woefully short of detail:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Couf
Maybe there's a book out there that I don't know about, I mean besides the three method books by him that are on sale on Amazon.com right now.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2014-03-04 19:04)
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2014-03-05 22:17
I own a Superba I Alto Saxophone
So how did Mr. Couf pronounce his name? Was it:
Koof
Kough
Soof
Sough
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2014-03-08 23:40
Maybe I shouldn't have caved. The wikipedia article in Gandalf's post contains exactly the information Mr. Couf asked me to delete.
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Author: Clarinet C
Date: 2014-11-23 04:18
I was a young student of Herb Couf in the late 1960s, early 1970s. He was an amazing teacher and soft on me because I was a girl. He filmed a series of lessons with me as student called "Let's Play Clarinet". I never saw the final product or found out what became of the films. If anybody knows if they still exist, I would love to know.
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2014-11-23 07:04
The Wikipedia article doesn't seem to have anything scandalous in it. But what's benign to some might be a scandal if the entire context is known...
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