 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-26 02:00
The Yamaha CSG with the Hamilton plated keys..... period.
The good folks at Ken Stanton Music, Atlanta were nice enough to bring one in on trial and it completely blew me away.
Firstly, right out of the box and plastic sleeves, the horn was adjusted beautifully. Key heights were perfect, spring tensions were impeccable, and all the tolerances were as if it just came from Bill Brannan's.
Now I need to vent. Buffet has stated fairly clearly that the minimum pricing is in place to prevent dealers from "cheapening the product" with the lower prices. Their horns come from France with pads, keys and springs out of adjustment and the excuse we hear is that things must have shifted in transit. I think Japan is a little further away than France and yet Yamaha doesn't seem to have the same problems......hmmmm. Perhaps Buffet could stand to take its own advice.
The sound is VERY focused. I played my R13 side by side with its rival. Within the first notes it was clear that the intonation and constancy of resistance across the Yamaha CSG was far better than the R13. In fact the ring, clarity and intonation of the altissimo was stunningly superior.
As a very slight caveat, when I purchased my R13 two years ago I chose only from amongst five different horns. Perhaps if I had ten or fifteen at my disposl back then I might have found a much better horn.
Caveat to caveat: Keep in mind this was just ONE Yamaha CSG, right out of the cardboard box from Yamaha.
I bought it on the spot and must add a thank you to Jerry Brooks, Carl Rohleder and David Lester of Stanton Music for making this happen. This is not gratuitous glad-handing. My point is that outside some very large specialty dealers one usually won't have a chance to see one of these clarinets in person, however, the above mentioned gentlemen brought this horn into the typical sort of store that caters to the middle school and high school market. There is hope then for those of you who have a Yamaha dealer near by in that perhaps you too can have the management arrange a 30 day (no obligation to buy) trial as long as the local Yamaha distributor has one in stock.
I also ran to a friend with a Tosca to play side by side and the intonation, tone, projection all held up to the point they sounded wonderful together.
I suggest the good folks at Buffet had better take a close look at Yamaha before they wind up in Yamaha's rear view mirror.
..............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2006-09-26 11:03)
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2006-09-26 04:49
Hey, vote me in on the Yamaha club too!
I also just bought a CSG with Hamilton and the ease of playing is great.
I find the sound so much easier to control than my 11 yr old R13. It has a beauty to the sound that I just can't achieve on my Buffet and it also doesn't have the harshness of my Buffet either.
I can't ever remember playing a clarinet with such good keywork. Comparing to one of my students new R13's the Yamaha keywork is "elite" quality.
I really want people to start looking outside France for their clarinets, you can get MUCH more value for your money and this clarinet proves it!
Derek
Australia
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-26 05:36
In your post, I'm most impressed with "were nice enough to bring one in on trial". You are very lucky. Where I live (and I mean the entire country) the Yamaha dealer (who by the way is the only dealer in the country and has a monopoly to control high prices), or any other clarinet dealer for that matter, will not order anything on trial. If you want something that is not in stock, you have to special order it, and pre-pay for it and can't return for a refund unless something is wrong with the instrument (and even then they will make at as difficult as possible to return it). Lucky you.
About the Yamaha clarinet, I've tried two of each of their top models not too long ago, and didn't like them as much as my clarinet, and sound-wise actually liked them less than the Buffets, Leblancs, and Selmers I tried at the same place. I only liked their keywork better than Selmer.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-09-26 06:08
Sorry for the stupid quesion, but what is Hamilton plating?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-26 10:27
Hamilton plating is an alloy of nickel and gold. I was much interested in this clarinet in the beginning solely for this plating because I have high acidity content in the oils of my skin. Gold is much less reactive to acid than either nickel (by itself) or siver. I recently received an email from Yamaha in which the rep. was also of the opinion that the Hamilton plating will be less reactive.
The only printed reason I had seen from Yamaha for this plating is that it is supposed to make the sound of the clarinet darker. In a very recent post someone tried the silver plate vs. the Hamilton plate CSG side by side and noted that there was indeed a noticable difference with the Hamilton plated clarinet playing a little "darker."
I had no such luck to try both but since the reactivity is the main concern and since I love the sound of this one, the silver horn is irrelevant to me.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2006-09-26 12:17
I agree that Buffet people should do much better for the finishing adjustment than coming up with million diffrent excuses why it's out of adj.
It is rediculous that brand new clarinet have to go thru $500 Brannenizing
right of the box.
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Author: TomD
Date: 2006-09-26 12:54
I also just purchased a Yamaha CSG-H just last week. I made an appointment at Yamaha Artist Services in New York City. I am not an artist or a professional yet they were more than willing to have me come in and try out their horns. They booked a 3 hour time slot during which I was the only one in there and I had full access to their Senior Technical Specialist who was fantastic. The only caveat is that they can't sell you the horn because of an arrangement they have with their dealers so I had the sale go through Pro Winds who I had been using to evaulate horns. However, it was all handled right there and I went home with the horn. Anyway, last night, I brought the clarinet to my lesson. My teacher is Assistant Principal along side David Shifrin (Principal) in the New Haven Symphony in Connecticut. She was really impressed with the fluidness, intonation and overall sound as well as the key work. She said that she understands why Mr. Shifrin is playing a CSG now. With the Yamaha mail-in rebate of $200, I got the horn for $1,795.00 Buffet better watch out!
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Author: Ed
Date: 2006-09-26 13:56
I have played many Yamahas over the years right out of the box and have always been impressed with their set up. I often feel that I could go play a concert as is. I agree that it is a shame you go to a retailer to try Buffets and many are unplayable and need extensive set up. I always have thought that Yamaha is doing something right on this one. I only wish I had the $$ to buy one right now.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-09-26 14:30
$1,795??
*notes to self: My birthday is Friday. Happy Birthday to me.*
I've been toying with the idea of getting one of these for a VERY long time...I played a couple, and was also incredibly impressed. I LOVE the way the Hamilton keys look (I think all that "dark sound" stuff is absolute hooey, but they sure are pretty!), and I'm all for something that won't tarnish. (I am death to silver
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-09-26 14:43
In common with much else produced by the Japanese, things that started out slowly and "not up to Western standards" just continue to improve and slowly but surely reach or exceed Western standards by the time that they are done. Yamaha's clarinets are just another example of that phenominon.
My main familiarity with Yamaha has been with their saxes, and I have to say that the first one that I played was not very impressive to this Mark VI era honker, not at all. But, that was some time ago.
Now, if I were to consider a new horn, it would be "Well, let's play a few Yamahas, then try a Selmer or two to see if the French have caught up yet." Nothing wrong with a Selmer of any stripe (save only the Mark VII), but they're just not as consistent as a Yamaha.
They just offer better value for the price, something that Selmer and Buffet need to wake up to and respond before it's too late.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-26 16:17
I just received some answers to questions from Mr. Mike Lutley of Yamaha:
1. the bore and concept of the G series is derived from the Reformed Boehm as you have stated---hence the longer upper joint with short barrel, the tighter taper at the bottom of the lower joint, and the bell with no metal ring. The bore is not the same as the Reformed Boehm instrument---it's has some aspects of that model though.
2. The "button' pads where the result of experiments to improve the sound of the already-excellent Lucien Deluxe pads---the button has 2 functions: first, it helps minimize the skins' tendency to buzz together---in general, the pads are mostly buzz free. Second, the nylon button seems to add a nice character and life to the tone---we tried metal buttons, but settled on the nylon for sound reasons. Each button is handset and glue-sealed into position.
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-09-26 16:19
Being interested, and thinking back on what little experience I've had in electro [and electro-less] plating and chemistry, does anyone have more tech info on this significant development by Yamaha? [GBK, Perhaps this should also have its own thread?]. I did a brief patent search or so, finding only a mention of Hamilton [AND gold] associated with semi-conductors, and a [thin] gold plating on cl pads, can post pat #'s if of interest. Yes, Yam is innovative, certainly competetive among our Big 4 [and our custom makers]. Was happy to see [web-site cl's] an option of the LH Ab/Eb [only]. Just AM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: clarinetmc
Date: 2006-09-26 17:06
My experience with the Yamaha CSG is that it doesn't project very well in an orchestral setting...any thoughts?
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Author: TomD
Date: 2006-09-26 17:31
"My experience with the Yamaha CSG is that it doesn't project very well in an orchestral setting...any thoughts?"
Bill Jackson and David Shifrin are both using it so they must feel it works well for them in an orchestral setting. However, I don't know if they have cutom barrels, etc. that might change the dynamics of the horn.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-09-26 21:05
I'm going to Hamilton-plate my reeds and see if that darkens their sound.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-26 21:51
I'm going to Hamilton plate my entire clarinet, keys included!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2006-09-27 00:35
The one drawback of having Hamilton plating on the keys is that............. the Burrs still remain.*
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton-Burr_duel
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
Post Edited (2006-09-27 00:36)
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Author: Detru Cofidin
Date: 2006-09-27 04:11
haha "buffet people"?!? hmmmm, what does that tell us about ourselves, saying something like that? laugh
Nicholas Arend
Post Edited (2006-09-27 04:12)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-09-27 04:17
[ Boys and girls: let's get the thread back on topic - GBK ]
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-27 04:20
I'm going to Hamilton plate my dog and see if his barks sound darker.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-09-27 04:24
[ This thread is closed. If anyone has something ON TOPIC to add, email Mark or myself.- GBK ]
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