 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2000-05-23 01:37
I know it has been a while since I have posted here(I have been busy), but I need your advice.
I have been having problems with my R-13-the bottom joint and the bell are really close to getting stuck together, even though I grease the cork before I play.
Does anyone have any suggestions to keep this from happening.
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Author: bill
Date: 2000-05-23 01:40
Take it to your local music shop. They will fix it in about ten minutes or so. That happened when I bought my sax, the cork was too fat for the mp so the tones were really flat.
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Author: Kim Parsons
Date: 2000-05-23 03:59
This happened to me as well when I owned my student model E11. I was kinda young at the time so I don't know really what happened - I think something funny happened with the cork. It only cost me aprox. $20 bucks Canadian to get it fixed and the horn was perfectly fine after that. Good Luck
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-05-23 05:50
Jeff -
Whether the instrument is still under warranty or not you don't mention. Even so, it's not the kind of thing you want to let go too long. If cork lubricant isn't doing the job a qualified tech can fix it, probably 'while you wait', at a reasonable cost now - compared to getting it unstuck later and re-corking the joint if/when it decides to quit co-operating with you.
ron b.
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Author: Aaron Hayden
Date: 2000-05-23 11:14
This problem occurs on many new wood clarinets. What happens is that the top shoulder of the tenon(above the cork track) becomes swelled after some use. This is a normal occurrance since the tolerances are extremely close. To remedy this problem, the wood on the shoulder has to be shaved slightly. This is done by a lathe or by special hand cutters that the Buffet factory offers to techicians. Bring your clarinet to a qualified technician.
Aaron Hayden
Techician
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-05-23 17:09
Jeff wrote:
-----------------
I have been having problems with my R-13-the bottom joint and the bell are really close to getting stuck together, even though I grease the cork before I play.
Does anyone have any suggestions to keep this from happening.
and Aaron Hayden wrote:
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This problem occurs on many new wood clarinets. What happens is that the top shoulder of the tenon(above the cork track) becomes swelled after some use. This is a normal occurrance since the tolerances are extremely close. To remedy this problem, the wood on the shoulder has to be shaved slightly. This is done by a lathe or by special hand cutters that the Buffet factory offers to techicians. Bring your clarinet to a qualified technician.
Jeff and Aaron -
If the joint "bites" as you take the instrument apart, even when you have thoroughly greased the cork, then the problem is not the cork but wood-on-wood friction. The problem is practically never that the end of the tenon has swollen, but rather than the inside of the socket has swollen at the bottom. The binding is between the bottom of the socket and the wood rim at the end of the tenon, beyond the cork. The ring at the top of the bell keeps the outside of the socket from expanding, so the only way it can move is inward.
This is always a serious problem that must be fixed right away to avoid cracking. The end of the bottom tenon on the lower joint is the thinnest wood on the clarinet, so you must act fast to protect it.
You should NEVER file the outside of the tenon, or let a repair shop do this, even though it's easier than reaming out the socket. That's not where the swelling is, and the wood is too thin to allow you to take anything off. Always work on the inside of the socket.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-05-23 18:09
Jeff,
I have seen techs do it both ways, ie. shave some off the LJ and some the socket on the bell. I don't want to upset Aaron because I respect him and his comments about tech items here on sneezy. However I agree with Ken. I've debated this issue with other techs several times and I am the opinion you take the wood off the socket not the tenon. It is a simple operation that doesn't take long at all if the repair shop has the right equipment.
J. Butler
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Author: Aaron Hayden
Date: 2000-05-23 19:31
Oh well, I guess Hans and Francois are wrong.
The bell socket is much thinner than the shoulders of the tenon, especially on Buffet's. I've seen the bell socket cave in after it was reamed,ever so slightly(this happened a few months later, when the socket bell ring became loose, & a tech tried to refit the ring. There are some brands that reaming the socket would be better i.e. Selmer. the tenons are extremely thin.
Aaron
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-05-23 22:19
Aaron -
Hans and Francois were/are right all the time when they actually handle(d) an instrument. As a matter of theory, I'm less sure. The design and wood thickness determine what can or can't be done safely on a particular instrument.
I claim no expertise myself, but simply repeat what Kal Opperman told me. He was speaking of the bottom socket of the barrel, which is where swelling most often occurs and where it is mostly likely to cause a crack in the upper joint. Also, a barrel is much easier (and cheaper) to replace or pin than the upper joint. I would think that a bell would be easier to replace than the lower joint.
You seldom replace a bell, so it probably doesn't matter much if there's a non-standard fit with the lower joint. However, if you take down the top tenon of the upper joint rather than ream the bottom socket of the barrel, then you can't put a different barrel on, because the tenon will be too small for a proper fit. If only for that reason, I would be reluctant to alter that tenon, at least without careful measurement that showed it was larger than standard size.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Aaron Hayden
Date: 2000-05-23 22:53
Ken,
You are making it sound that as if a lot of material is removed. In most cases it is less than 1/1000 of an inch or 0.0264mm, just enough to refit the joints.
As I indicated in the last post, some brands have very thin walled tenons. Selmer is one of them, in fact I've seen many series 9 & 10 with chunks missing from the bottom tenon joint. Buffet has a thick walled tenon.
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-25 14:33
I think Bill was right in that your cork is probably too thick. On my 'student' E11 clarinet, the cork on the tuning barrel is too thick, and this is causing me some problems when I try and separate the mothpiece after long periods of playing. See someone about it is my best advice.
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-25 14:35
Sorry Aaron, I didn't see your entry. Please remember that I am just a lowly student, and forgive me for my useless comments.
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2000-05-25 21:01
I believe that it is the wood-on-wood problem, because it slides smoothely over the cork and then gets tight up towards the top. My instrument is still under warranty, and I am taking it to Tim Clark in Columbus, OH to have it fixed on May 31.
Thanks for all the advice,
Jeff
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