 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2006-03-09 03:31
Thanks for the video. It is really fun to watch. Don't know who the clarinet is......Jack Brymer?
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2006-03-09 03:49
Cool. I'd seen parts of a postage-stamp-sized of this before on the Buffet site, but never the whole thing at this size. Thanks.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2006-03-09 04:10
Benny Goodman?? On the basset clarinet? I'm not so sure about that
Michael
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-03-09 05:23
Holy cow!
Look at the way they finish the bore. do you think that that technician gets the reamers into the joints the same distance and with the same side-loading every time? And then, they sand the bore with sandpaper wrapped on a mandrel! No wonder no two are alike!
I didn't see any tone hole undercutting going on. Or any individual tuning --just the guy playing the horn for the frequency analyzer. No sign of any adjustments being made.
Action set-up. Twisting a flat plate under a side key!
Further work required after production and packing.
Thanks for the vid. Its great to see all those expensive horns getting all of that hand work.
Bob Phillips
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2006-03-09 05:45
Composer: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Conductor: Charles Munch
Performer: Benny Goodman
Orchestra: Boston Symphony Orchestra
Label: Rca Victor
Catalogue Number: RD85275
Released: June 12, 1987
Audio CD
On this CD:
1. Clarinet Quintet in A
Composed by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
with Benny Goodman
2. Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra in A
Composed by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Performed by Boston Symphony Orchestra with Benny Goodman
Conducted by Charles Munch
jmsa
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2006-03-09 08:01
jmsa, thanks for the information but it can not possibly be this recording on the Buffet video. Benny Goodman did not have access to a basset clarinet during his life time. I think the only modern basset clarinet existing at the end of Benny G's life time was owned by Alan Hacker.
Alphie
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-03-09 11:31
Dave,
Thanks sooooooooooo much for the post. This is amazing to watch!
That blonde could recork my keys any day :-)
My guess on the recording is Anthony Pay. That's the only "original" instrument version I've ever enjoyed, so that's my guess.
So.......anyone have a name, number, e-mail for the current instrument tester at Buffet? Now that's knowledge that is power!!!!
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-03-09 11:58
Is it an illusion, or is the width of the screw driver blade greater than the length of the slot in the pivot rods? If that is true, then that screw driver would not fit inside the posts.
And was the key cork trimmed by sort of pushing off the excess with some sort of firm or abrasive block, perhaps polyurethane? I must try it.
Amazing how the body is shaped around the raised tone holes!
Did that case lid have to be forced closed??
I wouldn't worry too much about undercutting not being shown. There was heaps more that was not shown, such as fitting the bell ring, fitting springs, milling tone holes, finishing the outside of the body, etc.
Bob wrote "Holy cow! Look at the way they finish the bore.....do you think that that technician gets the reamers into the joints the same distance and with the same side-loading every time? And then, they sand the bore with sandpaper wrapped on a mandrel!"
I think that may be a bit harsh. There was very likely a stop for the reamer. An experienced operator would exert side pressure no more than a few grams; with experience the fingers can sense these things very accurately. And for all we know, that sandpaper may have been 1200 grit or more, in order to polish, with no more than 0.0001 mm removed.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-09 12:05
> Holy cow! Look at the way they finish the bore
Well, did you know the Trabant's [East German Car] motor was initially adjusted by ear? ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
Do not underestimate a fine craftsperson's skills.
Technical side question: Does the diameter - within limits, of course - of the bore influence the pitch or "only" the sound?
--
Ben
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Author: Tom W
Date: 2006-03-09 12:30
Gordon,
Mechanics used to use ball-peen hammers to "cut" gaskets by laying the gasket paper or cork on the surface and gently hitting the ball against the edge of the metal to get an exact fit. This process looked similar. More of an impact with the block than abrasion
The mechanical engineer in me screamed worse than "holy cow" when I saw the reaming process.
Great video!!!
Tom W
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-03-09 14:43
tictactux wrote:
> Technical side question: Does the diameter - within limits, of
> course - of the bore influence the pitch or "only" the sound?
Pitch. Length & volume are the determinants of pitch in a tube, and of course volume is determined by diameter - along with other things that change volume like tone hole height and even key height! The key height affects a small "phantom volume" outside the tone hole generated by reflected sound waves. Which is why key height can affect pitch slightly, as can fingers.
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-03-09 15:36
And was the key cork trimmed by sort of pushing off the excess with some sort of firm or abrasive block, perhaps polyurethane? I must try it.
Yep. I do the same thing, but I use emery boards and am far slower than she was. The trick is to sand very lightly, at about a 45 degree angle to the edge of the metal, and stop when you hear/feel the first sign of any grating. If you sand it evenly, that leaves only the thinnest bit of cork holding things together, and the "flash" peels off neatly. Yes, there's going to be some very small amount of damage to the edge of the key, but it's minimal. This isn't something that you do often, after all.
Did that case lid have to be forced closed??
Looks like it. The combination of that extra padding and new foam inside the case must have to be compressed a bit. Apparently it's not enough to hurt anything.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-03-09 15:40
Very nice video. It was fun to watch.
And, nice photos, Opus II. They made me wish I lived in Paris and I could drop in once in a while to just "breathe in" the ambiance. Sigh.
Beautiful wood. Nice workmanship.
Post Edited (2006-03-09 15:46)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-03-09 16:38
GREAT, A fine 622 plus very informative mfgr. methods/techniques. Are these similar/same as those used by Selmer and Leblanc and perhaps in other countries ? Will look again at the boring pics, have wondered about polycyl/conical U J/barrel machining? Fascinating, TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2006-03-09 16:49
Thanks for the clip. I was suprised how visible the grain was on the unstained wood they were using. I guess I always just assumed clarinet wood was naturally black !
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2006-03-10 00:07
Anybody here know how I can capture this video to save it to my hard drive??
Also, still wondering who the clarinetist is. It is certainly not Benny Goodman. I doubt it is Tony Pay too. IIRC, his recording is on a period instrument, right? Could it be Michael Collins? I think he has a recording of it, but I am not familliar with it.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2006-03-10 04:01
DAVE,
Just right click the link and choose "Save Link As" or whatever the equivalent command is on your browser. Worked for me.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2006-03-10 13:27
Have clarinets always been made of different pieces of grenidilla or was there ever a time when they tried to match the clarinet by the wood of the same tree? My perseption of how they created a clarinet was to take one piece of wood and cut/ream the instrument out into the parts (barrel, upper/lower joint, and bell). I knew that the barrel would be different. The reason I thought of this was when they showed the worker picking up a bell that seemed to be just a piece. Is the upper and lower joint at least a pair?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-03-10 14:33
From my own factory tours at several manufacturers the answer is -- Nope, the upper and lower joints, bell, and barrel are probably from differrent trees, different areas (distance from heartwood), and having different oil retention properties and potential stress characteristics that may lead to cracks. Getting two matched billets which are contiguous from the same tree would be unusual. The factory may try to match grain and color to some extent but not same tree contiguous billets of wood.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2006-03-10 14:38
The parts where made of different pieces of wood at the Leblanc factory.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-03-10 20:24
Well, it's the first day of spring break and I couldn't think of anything better to do so I've been trying to figure out who the clarinetist might be. At this point, having largely exhausted my collection of recordings of the piece, I can't tell you who it is but I can tell you alot of people that it isn't!
The first piece of evidence at hand, as several others have already noted, is that it is performed on a bassett clarinet. That rules out the Marcellus recording as well as its contemporaries (Wright, Leister, Prinz, Brymer (all), DePeyer, David Campbell, Goodman, McCaw, et al). Of the more recent recordings I have, it also rules out Richard Stoltzman, James Campbell, Paul Meyer and Sharon Kam, all of whom appear to have used a standard clarinet.
The second piece of evidence at hand is measure 127. This measure is a popular place for a short (or, in some cases, not so short) eingang. The clarinetist on the video soundtrack, as it turns out, did not choose to play one at this point. Instead, the s/he plays a big diminuendo on the first note and continues to diminuendo throughout the measure so that the final note is barely audible. As a result, we can eliminate all of the following bassett clarinet performances because the clarinetists play an eingang in that measure: Collins, Deinzer, Fageus, Frost, Hoeprich, King (Meridian recording), Lawson, Sabine Meyer (both recordings), Neidich, Pay, Schmidl, and Van de Wiel.
In fact, I could only find two recordings with bassett clarinet that didn't have an eingang in this measure: David Shifrin and Alan Hacker. Shifrin's diminuendo is not nearly so pronounced in measure 127 and he articulates the piece much differently than the video, really throughout, but quite noticeably in measures 69-75, so it isn't him.
I thought I had struck paydirt with Hacker's 1985 recording. His measure 127 is identical to the recording on the video -- the last note disappears. His articulation appears to be quite similar as well and (as far as I can hear, given the relatively poor sound quality on the video) the accompaniment sounds like The Music Party, a small ensemble. However, a second hearing turned up the fact that Hacker plays an improvised turn in measure 114. There is no such ornamentation on the video.
So, at the end of all this, I know quite a few recordings that it isn't but not whose it is. Logic suggests that Buffet might use a recording by one of their artists playing one of their bassett clarinets. Both Franklin Cohen and John Manasse are Buffet artists and both have commercial recordings of the work but I don't have either to listen to so I don't know whether they used a bassett clarinet, never mind the eingang.
www.arkivmusic.com has a list of available performances. The list indicates that the recordings by Lluna, Kriikku and Nicolas Cox all used bassett clarinet. There are probably others. And, of course, the recording might not be a commercial recording at all.
Bye for now, while I go look for a life.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2006-03-12 00:42)
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2006-03-10 21:26
Dave, I notice that you found the video at the Dutch site for 'Saxophone Shop'. And I see that Buffet only has the thumbnail on their current site, but that they say that the real recording is available through authorized dealers. Hmm, we're not exactly a dealer, but I like to say hello to the reps and to Francois at NAMM. I wonder if I could get a copy.
WT
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-03-11 12:09
Jack Kissinger,
If listening repeatedly to the Mozart concerto isn't a life, then what is?
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2006-03-11 20:38
What is an eingang?
Francois Kloc once told me that the top joint and barrel were reamed together, although do not recall if he said they were from the same billet. The video shows many top joints with the barrels attached...very interesting.
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Author: MD1032
Date: 2006-03-11 21:20
Cool video. I had no idea clarinets were so mass-produced. Buffet must crank out hundreds of those suckers a day at that rate.
I didn't know the top and bottom weren't matched. That makes a lot of sense now. This explains why my upper and lower joints are is great shape while my barrel has deteriorated and cracked despite my efforts to keep it water-resistant.
I still don't get how they get those rings on the bells.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-03-12 01:30
Eingang is the opposite of an Ausgang
more info is you do a search of the bboard
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Author: clarinetus
Date: 2006-03-12 18:22
The performer in this Mozart Clarinet Concerto recording is, without doubt, Michel Arrignon.
More details about the CD:
Orchestre de Chambre Jean-François Paillard
Conductor: Jean-François Paillard
On the same CD:
Mozart Horn Concertos No.1 and No.3 performad by Jean Jacques Justafré
Mozart Basson Concerto performed by Gilbert Audin
Recorded: June 12, 13, 16 and 17, 1991 at Notre-Dame du Liban PARIS
RCA Red Seal
All the best
Venancio Rius-Marti
http://www.clarinetus.com
info@clarinetus.com
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2006-03-12 18:49
Good dectetive work, Jack. It's a very interesting video, paired with a fine recording. The recording is NOT the Mannase one, as Manasse's decides to go with an all-out full length cadenza near the end.
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Author: ajhogan
Date: 2006-03-13 10:00
I absolutely love that recording, but cannot find much about getting that recording of Michel Arrignon. Any help on where to aquire this cd would great.
Thanks
Austin
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2006-03-14 00:10
About reamers: the beauty of the (parallel) reamer is that it follows an existing bore without disturbing it, if you don't ask it to take too much off. The leading edges of the flutes are ground to cut, but the rest of the tool is ground cylindrically to act only as a guide. Therefore moderate side loading does not remove any material.
A tapered reamer is another matter. It cuts along its entire length, so the setup should be rigid and true.
John Morton
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-03-14 02:38
Wow...thank you for posting the copy of this video. Although I have seen the small clip at the buffet website, the whole thing never did work on my computer.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-03-15 15:18
Michel Arrignon is, and has been considered by the powers that be at Buffet France as their premiere performer and tester of instruments (along with Cuper, Moragues, DePlus, etc.). It is not surprising to me that therefore, they selected his performance to accompany this video advertisement.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2006-03-15 22:29
Having been in the factory and observed the process several times, I know that the people who do the reaming at BC go though a humongously long apprenticeship. The reamer in chief has been doing the job for more than 30 years. They say he's the one who put the soul into a clarinet. I concur that the clarinetist is Philippe Arignon, who is BC's current chief tester and a heck of a nice guy.
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The Clarinet Pages
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