 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinet60
Date: 2005-12-22 19:54
I recently purchased a Backun barrel for my Buffet R13 A clarinet and it made a significant improvement in the tone, tuning and response for this clarinet. This particular barrel happens to be a Cocobollo with Grenadilla rings. I'm considering purchasing a B-flat barrel also and was wondering, however, whether the same type of wood will work best, or whether something else will be better. I did try the A barrel on my b-flat R13 Prestige, (knowing full well that the tuning is not optimized for this instrument) just to check tone quality, and it seems to be a bit dull. I understand this could be because it is not the proper bore for the B flat, but think another type of wood might work better. I'm curious as to what type of wood most folks have had success with on their B flats???
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-12-22 20:02
Why don't you email Backun with this question? They would know the best answer and are very helpful in their emails! Good luck!
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Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-12-22 20:03
I sincerely doubt the type of wood would make an audible difference in the sound of your horn. There just isn't that much difference in the surface characteristics of hardwoods once they've been polished and oiled.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-22 20:18
No one can answer the question ... just try barrels until you're satisfied. Don't limit yourself to just Backun, either ... just because one worked for one clarinet is no guarantee whatsover of anything.
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Author: clarinet60
Date: 2005-12-22 20:26
Mark...I've tried them all - Moennig, Chadash, Muncy etc., etc.. And the Backun worked far better than anything else. I'm hoping to hear from folks who own the Backun barrels and what their results have been from the different types of woods.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-22 23:07
clarinet60 wrote:
> Mark...I've tried them all - Moennig, Chadash, Muncy etc.,
> etc.. And the Backun worked far better than anything else.
I believe you for the clarinet you bought a barrel for ... however, you didn't really read my post.
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2005-12-23 00:22
Mr. Backun and his U.S. representative, Mr. Jaffee, are both extremely helpful in selecting bells and barrels. When I wanted purchase barrels for a Bb Selmer Recital last year, I noted the qualities I was hoping to achieve, and Mr. Backun hand selected (and personally test played on a Recital of a well-known player that was in his shop at the time for an overhaul) both a grenadilla and coccobolo barrel, selecting ones that matched what I was looking for. Both were amazing and stayed with me as did a selected bell. The wood in the barrels does make a difference and I like to interchange them.
If you ask them, they probably have dealt with many customers who are using sets of Bb and A clarinets of the same models as yours and can advise you on the wood selection to make them play "comparably" if that is what you are going for.
My experience is that Backun Musical will spend large amounts of time making its customers happy and you should just ask them directly as they do not try to sell you stuff you do not ask for, they will take back barrels and bells you do not like, and they try to match what they can sell you to what you are looking for. Buying their components is like buying a BMW -- relatively expensive, but you get 110% product innovation and quality control and customer service. I have always viewed such a combination to be a bargain (but not cheap).
George
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-23 00:45
ghuba wrote:
> My experience is that Backun Musical will spend large amounts
> of time making its customers happy and you should just ask them
> directly as they do not try to sell you stuff you do not ask
> for, they will take back barrels and bells you do not like, and
> they try to match what they can sell you to what you are
> looking for. Buying their components is like buying a BMW --
> relatively expensive, but you get 110% product innovation and
> quality control and customer service. I have always viewed such
> a combination to be a bargain (but not cheap).
Backun follows pretty much the norm for any of the mouthpiece/barrel/bell suppliers: plenty of handholding, easy returns, quality control, and customer service. Just about any of the good makers will have the same approach and quality, if not quantity.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-23 02:52
"Handholding" yes, as Mark said.
What you might not realize is that fully half of those who query me about barrels really have another, and simpler, malady that can be corrected easily to achieve the same result.
After confering with a potential client, it is not uncommon for honest craftsman to suggest these other manipulations.
We wind up losing a sale, but gaining respect.
Another thing that is not always apparent is that many stock barrels differ greatly in configuration. I have 6 Selmer Recital barrels in my workshop that were unplayable. Each had a different bore size, and none matched the characteristics of the better playing Recital barrels that I have for my own horns. In fact, one was clearly a mislabeled Signature barrel. My good ones have the same dimensions as a barrel that Backun sold to me. Multiply this variability by a factor of 5, and you get the disparity amongst R13 stock barrels.
Handholding? Another term, more caudal in location might be more appropriate.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2005-12-23 14:25
Mark,
I agree with your point that Backun's business practices are mirrored by a number of others. My personal experience has been that a number of folks offering similar products (including Walter Grabner, Ben Redwine of Genusa, Tom Ridenour, Dr. Segal, Dr. Henderson, among others) will answer inquiries almost immediately, provide a rationale for their advice, and not try to sell you something that you do not want, offering easy returns and try-out periods. Backun does this as well. The important thing is to recognize that there are a number of highly skilled and ethical folks offering these products and to ask them directly what they recommend as well as relying upon the combined wisdom of board posters.
And on the other side of this ... If someone were trying to sell inferior products in an unethical or high pressure way, it is quite likely that there would be a bunch of posts on this board stating that as well.
And to re-iterate my previous point... most of these "businesses" are run by clarinet performers and enthusiasts who operate on the BMW model -- 110% innovation, quality control, and customer service which tends to make them "bargains" if you can afford their products.
And, as one final point NOT in response to your email but related to the above, I think that is important not to abuse a group of ethical small business owners by ordering two dozen products just to try them (and then rely on liberal return policies) because one has not done adequate homework, is not really serious about making a purchase, had not communicated enough with the product developers, or is not willing to ethically balance the needs of the customer to receive a great product and the producer to make a fair return on its investment of time and money in developing superior products.
George
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-23 15:13
well said, George.
And that would also apply to the mouthpiece makers,board moderators, cork grease innovators etc. as well.
These are very dedicated people.
NO ONE can ever get rich doing this stuff.
The target audience is way too small. I think we all live for the "attaboy" moreso than the "oh my, as your accountant I can state that you have huge capital gains to offset."
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-23 15:17
Well, as for BMWs, I've owned 3 over the years. There was only one of those that had a great quality-control record. One of them (the Z3) almost killed my husband when the shoulder strap/seat belt combo caught fire when he was driving down the road. "Just a malfunction," said the BMW rep., "just drive it to the dealership (145 miles away) and we'll take care of it." He said, "I'm not driving 145 miles in a convertible with no seat belt." Well, enough of that story. It ended well. We sold the car. I think I've had better results from clarinet barrels.
I use 2 types of barrels--Backun and one from Allan Segal (Alseg). The Segal barrel is a beautiful piece of work in Cocobolo. The Backun barrels are both Grenadilla with Cocobolo rings. I recommend contacting the maker personally and telling them what you are playing and what you want to accomplish. I'm highly satisfied with these barrels. They make a HUGE difference in my overall sound, projection and tone. And, best of all, none of them have caught fire while playing.
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Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-12-23 15:30
David Blumberg said:
"That would mean that you probably haven't tried many different barrel woods at all.......
I have, and there is certainly a difference! The difference is even audible to my wife who isn't a trained musician. The wood has quite different densities.
We spent about 6 hours at Backun's 2 summers ago selecting barrels and bells."
Were all those barrels identically shaped and finished? I'm surprised they would sound significantly different if identically shaped, but I certainly bow to your greater experience and expertise on that matter.
I stand corrected.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-23 15:31
I don't have any experience with Backun barrels, but I personally think Grenadilla is the best wood for everything clarinet related (clarinets, bells, barrels, etc).
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-23 15:37
clarnibass wrote:
> I don't have any experience with Backun barrels, but I
> personally think Grenadilla is the best wood for everything
> clarinet related (clarinets, bells, barrels, etc).
Grenadilla wasn't popular for clarinets until the number of posts & holes grew to be so many that the mechanical integrity of the (boxwood, pearwood, and other traditional woods) was thoroughly compromised. What we play, for better or worse, is something very different from what a clarinet started out to be.
Your thoughts on what's good for "everything" is a result of around a hundred or so years of tradition, not from the clarinet's origin.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-23 16:04
"""And, best of all, none of them have caught fire while playing."""
Yes....but my learning curve involved a smoking barrel on the lathe.
And I had a meltdown of a latex-derived material ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
Not to mention Perosa rubra....man, does that stuff crack.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-23 16:06
Mark, I'm sorry but I don't understand how what you said is related to what I wrote in my post.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-23 16:28
clarnibass wrote:
> Mark, I'm sorry but I don't understand how what you said is
> related to what I wrote in my post.
"just because one worked for one clarinet is no guarantee whatsover of anything."
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-23 18:38
I have to mention that I have grown to really love the Cocobolo wood. It has a definitive "ring" that the Grenadilla doesn't. Of course, my Opus is Grenadilla wood, but the bell (a Backun) and the barrel (the Segal I mentioned above) are both Cocobolo. I'm told (by Morrie) that Cocobolo is becoming the wood of choice for most of the professionals he works with. Larry Combs (the principal of the Chicago S.O.) and the one who helped Leblanc design the Opus II, chose a Cocobolo bell and a Cocobolo barrel because of the rich tone and the nice overtone ring.
I also felt Grenadilla was the wood of choice until I played more of the Cocobolo. When I had Greg Smith make a wooden mouthpiece for me he sent out both Cocobolo and Grenadilla and I chose the Grenadilla for the mouthpiece because it was a bit darker.
There is a distinct difference in the sounds of the various woods. You just have to try them and decide for yourself through the process of play-testing. Have others listen to you as well. Don't rely upon your own ear. It's a bit like hearing yourself sing--you always sound different to others.
Wow, Allan, it's nice to know my barrel was pre-burned. BMW could learn a few things. By the way, they came with a flat-bed truck and got the car. No one from the shop wanted to drive it.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-23 18:40
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> Larry
> Combs (the principal of the Chicago S.O.) and the one who
> helped Leblanc design the Opus II, chose a Cocobolo bell and a
> Cocobolo barrel because of the rich tone and the nice overtone
> ring.
I don't believe Larry's using Backun setup right now.
[ Note. My mistake & apologies to Backun. Larry is using the barrel & bell from Backun. ]
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-12-23 19:40
[ There are numerous past threads on Backun products as well as the conflicting opinions on material vs sound. This thread has gone far enough - GBK ]
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