 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-11 13:01
I was at Juilliard yesterday at the Backun Morales Masterclass.
The students playing in the Masterclass were wearing very, very informal wear - jeans, etc and looked really sloppy.
I'm not saying to wear a suit and tie to play in a MasterClass, but no jeans.
Should be "business casual" at least!! I know in some schools jeans wouldn't be accepted at all and the player would get grief instantly, but that wasn't the case.
I wish it were.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2005-10-11 13:47
So how was the masterclass?
is the new Bavkun Morales equipment anything crazy?
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: chito
Date: 2005-10-11 14:11
Hi how about the new backun mouth piece any information ?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-10-11 14:29
David -
Was it listed anywhere other than the "What's Happening" board here? I wish I had gone.
Mark and Glen -
I don't check the What's Happening list regularly, and I think that many of the list participants don't check it either. Would it be possible to rethink the policy and put reminders in a couple of days or perhaps a week before things like master classes?
Thanks.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2005-10-11 14:43
Too impose a dress code as a requirement for any students involvement in pursuing their education would be a form discrimination against those few--and perhaps quite talented--students that may be financially disadvantaged and simply can't afford to dress more affluently. The only prerequisets for any studnts participation in a college class--masterclass, if you will--should be the students basic talent and their desire to learn. Dress codes at any level in our public school educational system--K through college--should be a thing of the past along with "separate but equal".
Now, onto the important stuff--how did the students perform, what where the clinicians comments and what about all that new stuff available for gadgetmaniac clarinetists to rush out and buy????
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-11 14:49
I don't buy it.
Dress to impress. If ya can't afford the clothes, you probably can't afford the equipment, and the schooling either.
1 decent set of clothes won't break anyone's bank.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-10-11 15:13
"1 decent set of clothes won't break anyone's bank."
It's all the word 'decent', what does it really mean ? Your decent, my decent or their decent ?
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-10-11 15:17
I didn't see anyone suggesting a dress code. I interpretted what was said as being a suggestion that people dress decently as a sign of respect. Doing otherwise gives others the impression that a person doesn't think enough of them to bother spending a few minutes changing into something more appropriate for the occasion. That they are inconsiderate of others and care more about their own convenience than about others sensibilities.
This is not to exclude someone doesn't own anything better than a pair of ratty jeans and a t-shirt from attending in those clothes. But, I assume, most of those who attended owned or could have afforded at least one set of semi-respectable clothes.
Dressing properly and having manners is about being considerate of others.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-11 15:19
Not the ones in attendance
The ones who were performing!!!!!!!
They were dressed like bumbs. I doubt they would dress like that for a date, or church, and this should have been the same.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-10-11 15:25
I am with David here.
Not that folks should wear Brooks Brothers or something...One can buy inexpensive khakis at Wal-Mart for under $20, and if one shops at Goodwill, etc., then stuff is frequently MUCH cheaper.
Jeans seem to be more expensive than khakis anyhow...
Katrina
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-11 15:37
Well BelgianClarinet, my decent should be your decent, and nobody likes "them" ...... 
(kidding, just in case nobody has a sense of humor)
I wrote "business casual" so that is a standard which most can understand and use as a guideline.
That means NO JEANS AND NO T-SHIRTS FOR THE PERFORMERS. Attendees can come buck neekid if they want, but just don't go on stage......
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-11 15:41
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Mark and Glen -
It's Mark to blame for all things technical ...
> I don't check the What's Happening list regularly, and I think
> that many of the list participants don't check it either.
> Would it be possible to rethink the policy and put reminders in
> a couple of days or perhaps a week before things like master
> classes?
I've been putting in a lot of time recently into reorganizing this whole disorganized web site. There's nothing that does everything, making it a bit hard since I have to write & test new plugins and migrate old databases into a new format.
One of the things I've tried out is a plugin where people can enter the calendar events themselves, then it gets moderated & published as a calendar, but upcoming events published to the front page well in advance automatically.
Along with having an RSS feed to those mail clients that support it ...
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-11 15:58
This place isn't that disorganized, it's great! Huge amt of material here and it's easy enough to find.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-11 16:02
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> This place isn't that disorganized,
If that's so ...
I don't want to paw through YOUR junk drawer ... 
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-10-11 16:11
Unfortunately, we have become a society where everything is casual. You go to a nice restaurant, church, events, etc and find people dressed in a style which years back might have been more appropriate for a game of touch football. It is nice to see people dressed nicely, performances or auditions included. It does not cost any more. Often the more casual styles actually can be rather pricey fashion statements.
A former teacher on mine once told me that Marcellus told him for auditions "dress well and play even better"
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Author: William
Date: 2005-10-11 16:16
If you go out into the real world for a gig, than I agree that one should be prepared to dress appropriately for the occassion. But this "occassion" was a college class where the main emphasis is student envolvement and the opportunity to learn--not "dress to impress". And what I am objectiong to is DBs "requirement" that they should have been attired in dress slacks instead of jeans to avoid "looking like bums". Jeans are better than no jeans and really, what is the next level--a tux requirement to play in a masterclass?? My point is that at any given school level, any dress code requirement may present a real form of economic discrimanation for the student not having been born with a silver spoon in their mouth. And, simply, the right of any student anywhere to be envolved and learn should never be impedded by the quality of their clothing.
Dress the best you can, act appropriatly, play your best and learn by being envolved should be the bottom line to this discussion.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-10-11 16:26
I probably wouldn't even notice the students were "informal" and I certainly wouldn't mind.
I saw a concert where Karl Heinz Stefens (spelling?) was playing and if he wore jeans I probably even notice anything is weird....
This is a little similar to the Beethoven & Springsteen (spelling?) thread. It is exactly another reason why the people of the classical music culture are considered "elitist snobs" as someone on that thread said.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-10-11 18:10
I disagree. My job requires that I wear no jeans. Pants, skirts, anything but denim. My job is not "elitist" but it does require "appropriate" attire...
I do not spend a lot of money on clothing, but I always try to dress in a way appropriate to the event. If that is jeans, that is jeans. BTW, I wear jeans and t-shirts almost always when I teach my private students.
And frequently, to "dress the best you can" is not any more expensive than jeans. It has nothing to do with income!!!
Katrina
Post Edited (2005-10-11 20:26)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-11 20:54
Quote:
And frequently, to "dress the best you can" is not any more expensive than jeans. It has nothing to do with income!!! I'm willing to agree.
At the masterclass that I saw a while ago, it was a similar turnout (for the performers). I remember one specifically in jeans, sneakers and a T-shirt, however the rest (to my recollection) all at least wore a tucked in button down shirt or something less "casual" and slightly more "business".
However all in all, I didn't see it take away from the masterclass. It WAS a little shocking and odd to see the student dressed in jeans and a T-shirt while the teacher was in a suit & tie, however when you get down to it, it's the sound that they produce that should be worried about.
Personally, if I were in their place, I'd dress nicely. More along what Dave B. suggests. But it's THEIR choice, there WAS no dress code, so I really can't fault them for wearing whatever they chose.Quote:
Should be "business casual" at least!! I know in some schools jeans wouldn't be accepted at all and the player would get grief instantly, but that wasn't the case.
I wish it were. Unfortunately though, it wasn't. Like I said, personally I'd want to dress nicer for a number of reasons (One being that if I WERE to go for and land an orchestral job, I doubt they'd allow me to play in jeans and a t-shirt, so I may as well get used to the prospect of playing in a nice suit. Another might be to minimize my chances of burning a bridge. I don't want to meet the teacher at a critical time in a playing career where they can help make/break me, and have them remember me as 'that guy last year who wore ripped jeans and a cutoff'.) But I'm not the other person.
But definitely Dave B, I personally would want to dress nicer and, if I were a person who had been contacted and given up my time to help coach a student, it sure would be nice to see that they tried to impress in an overall sense rather than just through the playing.
One thing I remember Mark Nuccio saying at a masterclass I went to, was that were he on an auditioning panel for the NY Phil, and he were auditioning a clarinetist to see whether he/she should join, he would look not only at the playing, but also at the person as a whole and say to himself, "Now do I really want that person to be sitting next to me for however many years?" (this was spoken in reference to excessive movement while playing, however I bet it doesn't HELP a situation such as that by looking like a slob)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-10-11 21:26
William wrote: "My point is that at any given school level, any dress code requirement may present a real form of economic discrimanation for the student not having been born with a silver spoon in their mouth"
I don't think that a dress code should be imposed for masterclasses, but I don't think anybody was suggesting that. Strangely enough, I have often seen that students from poorer countries (eg Africa and Eastern Europe) are the ones who make the biggest effort to impress with what they wear. You can see that their clothes aren't designer labels, and especially with African students their clothes didn't even fit properly, probably because they were hand-me-downs from older family members. But the point is that they made an effort as a sign of repect for the visiting teacher/ audition panel/audience or whoever. The students who dress like slobs are often from privileged backgrounds who somehow believe that the world owes them something.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-10-12 16:11
It is a matter of respect for the lecturer and respect for the audience. Masterclasses aren't blind-screen, so your appearance is part of what people use to form an opinion of you as an artist. Dressing like a slob is as much an affectation as dressing to the nines, and does say something about you. Same thing with dressing provocatively.
I don't think a dresscode would serve any purpose. This is part of the learning experience as well. What would I as a student want the Principal Clarinet of the Philadelphia to remember about me? "Nice kid. Good potential. Looks like he lives in a refrigerator box. Somebody buy him a sandwich please."
If you are serious about this as a career, masterclasses are performances/auditions/job interviews. You might want to study with the lecturer in the future, or he/she may be sitting on the panel for an orchestra audition. This business is hard enough without shooting yourself in the foot with non-clarinet related items. I tell my students to go wardrobe-neutral (neat and professional, but not over the top) so the experience is about the clarinet and the clarinet only.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2005-10-12 16:12
A useful piece of advice given to me as a young newspaper reporter was to come to work prepared for ANY assignment -- be it an interview with a government minister or covering a crowd at the race track. Collar and tie, a neutral sports coat or blazer, slacks and proper shoes rather than sneakers will take you anywhere and needn't cost much.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2005-10-12 16:17
Anymore, I think it would be wise for organizers - especially in an educational setting - to communicate dress expectations ahead of time. Otherwise, you're gonna get what you get.
Different people will have different expectations - just read the diversity in this thread. However, communication is the great leveler of playing fields. Once the expectations are communicated, like it or not, the standards have been set.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-10-12 21:25
"Business Casual" is still an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned and is also just another "uniform" control method denying to be such. I'm so happy I don't have to conform to your interpretation of what is proper to wear.
Bob Draznik
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-12 21:51
I'd much rather it be an oxymoron than to look like one in front of a crowd......
This thread is about to get circular, I can feel it
Post Edited (2005-10-13 00:06)
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-10-12 21:51
I honestly can't believe that this conversation is happening. This is 2005, not the 1950's. Students wear jeans, that's the way it is. So do a lot of other people. People don't wear black to funerals any more, either. Even when I went to school in the seventies, students wore jeans, and dressing any other way for a master class would have branded you as a dork.
I'm not saying this is necessarily good, but it's a fact of life. Many would rather not go than wear khakis. Maybe it's because I'm from Boston.
Sue Tansey
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-10-12 22:16
3dogmom wrote:
> I honestly can't believe that this conversation is happening.
> This is 2005, not the 1950's. Students wear jeans, that's the
> way it is. So do a lot of other people. People don't wear
> black to funerals any more, either. Even when I went to
> school in the seventies, students wore jeans, and dressing any
> other way for a master class would have branded you as a dork.
>
> I'm not saying this is necessarily good, but it's a fact of
> life. Many would rather not go than wear khakis. Maybe it's
> because I'm from Boston.
> Sue Tansey
And people are STILL judged by many according to how they look, speak, and by their 'manners'.
As you say above, I'm not saying this is necessarily good, but it's a fact of
life.
I don't see anyone advocating 'khakis', simply a little respect for those who have taken the trouble to give you the benefit of their skill & experience .
But we all have a choice.
Best regards
Roger
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-12 22:25
This thread has become circular.
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