 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2005-10-09 08:21
As I have said before on this board, one of my goals is to become a professional clarinettist.
Late last week, I was diagnosed with depression. I have been depressed for 9 years (it has been more episodic over the past four years), and it recently got to the point where I had to either
1. Hurt myself badly enough to put myself out of action for a while and thus get help.
2. Keep going the way I was, fail most of the classes that I'm taking at the Conservatorium, forget how to play the clarinet because of lack of practice, and kill myself.
3. Go and see a doctor and get help.
I chose option 3.
I also have an undiagnosed case of Asperger's Syndrome and possible mild ADD- Inattentive-Type.
All of these things cause fairly major problems with attention and focus, and the Asperger's causes problems with organisation and time management.
As you may imagine, these issues make it difficult to set up and maintain a decent practice routine.
I would much rather deal with these issues and become a professional player than use them as an excuse for failure, so if anyone has had experience in dealing with the same or similar issues and can give me advice on how to deal with them, I would REALLY appreciate it.
Thanks.
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-10-09 08:57
My sincere sympathies to you.
Choosing number 3 as you wrote is the best thing you can do right now.
Hope you can get through the hard time with all the help you can muster: if not here, with your loved ones and from your doctor.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-10-09 15:01
please write me off line,
we can compare some notes
Bob Phillips
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-10-09 19:57
RachelYou mentioned Aperger's keeping you from being organized. I'm not familiar witht the disorder, but have a suggestion. I am very sporadic and have been compared to birds who get distracted by shiny objects...seriously Anyway, I am now making a practice binder. It outlines my short-term and long-term goals and also contains my music and warm-up stuff plus various articles I found interesting which pertain to the clarinet. Perphaps you could try this. Email me offline for any help you may require!! Good Luck!!Clayton
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2005-10-09 22:22
depression..... I'm sorry...
I am quite a depressed person myself, and I use the clarinet and piano to cheer me up..... That was and is my way of dealing with it..... Doing something that I loved...
Now, I don't know if you love to play... But if you do, if you truly want to become a professional clarinetist, then that motivation will take away from your depression.....
Just know, that no matter what, God loves you... Never let a day go by where you think that no one cares or loves you, because that is completely untrue....
I'll pray for you... I hope things get better, and may God always be with you...
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-10-10 00:23
Rachel,
I'm not sure that you should be posting such personal information on a public BB. Are you over 18 and an adult? If not, do your parents/guardians know you are posting this information? If you are an adult, fine but even so, when I have a personal problem, this BB is not my first choice for advice.
IMHO you need to be talking solely to medical/behavioral professionals.
HRL
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2005-10-10 01:25
Hank,
I am 21 years old and an adult.
I am seeing a doctor.
The reason I am asking for advice here is that this BBoard is full of musicians, who may or may not have been through similar issues.
Thank you to everyone who has posted.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-10-10 05:06
Mary,
Clinical depression is a very different beast from general sadness and what most people "know" as depression.
In most cases it does not improve with being "cheered up."
It sometimes requires years of talk therapy in addition to medications to balance the brain's chemicals.
Katrina
(I've got clinical depression, and so does my sister...)
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2005-10-10 06:55
I've always thought it was little mental quirks that made professional musicians what they are.
Asperger syndrome and depression? Sounds like a budding Clarinetist to me.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-10-10 07:31
I can really sympathise because I was depressed for a while.
All I can offer is my congratulations in taking the first step in seeking help: that's the hardest part and about 50% of the hard work is over!
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-10-10 07:45
I've got no experience with Asperger's Syndrome ...sincere sympathies to you. But it's always good to search for help in time of problems, so I think you're travelling the road to success..
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Author: bryris
Date: 2005-10-10 15:58
Drugs are not the answer.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-10 17:08
bryris wrote:
> Drugs are not the answer.
Are you a doctor? Drugs most certainly can be the answer in particular cases.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-10-10 17:12
Pharmaceuticals are usually not the entire answer, but they can certainly be part of the answer if prescribed by a knowlegeable physician or psychiatrist after a proper diagnosis. Our thought processes are certainly affected by our body chemistry and sometimes that chemistry can be slightly out of whack. (Consider how your mind is affected after you've had a couple of drinks or some strong coffee or your blood sugar is low because you haven't eaten in a while. All are chemical effects.)
On the other hand, if you are trying to say that illicit, illegal or improperly used drugs are not the answer, I agree wholeheartedly.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-10-10 17:29
I'm surprised Tom Cruise hasn't weighed in yet.
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Author: bryris
Date: 2005-10-10 17:55
In a society ridden with drugs as this one is (I am talking prescription drugs) a statement like that will undoubtedly be met with strong opposition.
But, for those interested in researching the subject, I invite you to check out:
http://www.cchr.org
For the rest of you, feel free to flame.
Good luck to you, Rachel.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-10 18:15
bryris wrote:
> But, for those interested in researching the subject, I invite
> you to check out:
>
> http://www.cchr.org
And keep reading - many, many places and books. Along with keeping an open mind, which is a hell of a lot harder than those on diametrically opposed sides think. Keeping religion out of the process might be a good 1st step.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-10-10 20:25
If Mark will permit...
First, I'm aware, as most of us are, that no medicine is perfect; they all can produce adverse side effects in some instances.
Is psychiatry perfect? I expect there is some subjectivity in making psychiatric diagnoses.
But, the main question to be addressed is: Are antidepressants and other psychoactive drugs effective? Working for a consulting company that helps life sciences companies ensure they have the proper documentation to get FDA approval for a treatment, device or drug, I know that the FDA is quite thorough in the degree of documentation they require and in having the documentation to show that standards are in place to trace all documentation to its source and prevent the alteration of electronic documents.
To get a drug approved, a pharmaceutical company must have scientifically demonstrated efficacy. This is done using double-blind studies where neither the patient nor the observer knows who is taking the drug and who is taking the placebo. After data have been gathered noting the the degree of improvement or worsening of the condition in each patient, the researchers then find out which test subjects were taking the drug and which the placebo. Trained statisticians then determine if there is a significant degree of correlation between improvement (or other negative or positive effects) and the taking of the drug in comparison to those taking the placebo. Every step is documented and archived. This is very scientific and repeatable process. The results are then reported to the FDA. (Previously, when everything was done on paper, I expect it could take a semi to carry all of the documents to the FDA.)
Bottom line is that drugs approved for use have been scientifically proven to be effective to a certain degree. (But, that doesn't mean they are risk free, as we have heard through the news. We would hope that the reporting of the risks will become better. It also doesn't mean that drugs alone are the best way to treat someone or that a drug will be effective on every patient it is given to, because everyone's body chemistry is a little different.)
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2005-10-10 21:26
Good for you for writing to the board. And good for you in getting some help. I have been a bubble off plumb all my life, and actually I think it has helped me in my playing. But my issues are more with a stomach that won't behave itself and this has kept me from following a professional career in music. Traveling extensively would be out of the question. With the Trad Jazz scene I know that I am not confined to a chair and no way to escape such as playing in a symphony. This probably is more like claustrophobia! My sis has Asperger's syndrome and she has a real problem socially. Good luck to you!
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Author: ginny
Date: 2005-10-10 21:59
Pretty much off topic, delete if appropriate. My older son, not my clarinet playing son, is Asperger's like. He probably would test out of the diagonsis at this point. He was treated with predinisone for ulcerative colitis last year and had a very bad reaction to it and didn't sleep for something like 10 days. The short version is he is now on a 1/4 dose of an anti-anxiety drug and it has helped him in every aspect of his life. At least for him the AS manifests itself in anxiety, which kept him from trying hard.
All As. He got a girlfriend and a part time job. However he does not tend to be depressed just anxious.
Check with your doctor, our experience has been very positive.
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2005-10-11 03:37
I disagree with those who say that drugs do not work. While they may not be the whole answer, they will help with the chemical imbalance and let me think clearly enough to sort through any other problems that are causing the depression.
For those of you who are unfamiliar with Asperger's Syndrome, here are the criteria.
[ Do Not copy entire web pages.
Use the link: http://www.aspergers.com/aspcrit.htm - GBK ]
Another description can be found on Tony Attwood's website, http://tonyattwood.com.au. Go to the Articles and publications section, and scroll down until you find the paper "The Discovery of "Aspie" criteria".
This is a list of positive criteria.
I share his view that it is not a defect, but a difference in functioning.
More information can be found here http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php
This is a quiz to see how many Asperger's traits you have. I scored 143 when I took it.
I think that the quiz and the Discovery criteria describe the syndrome much better than the DSM-IV criteria that I listed above.
The syndrome does give a lot of advantages when it comes to music.
1. Those of you who are familiar with the syndrome should know about the obessions that come with it. Music is my biggest one.
2. I have an exceptionally strong response to music.
3. I have an innate ability to be able to follow the structure and patterns of music. I actually process music a lot better than I process speech. I have speech processing difficulties, though.
4. I have perfect pitch. (Apparently around 1 in 10 people with the syndrome have perfect pitch.)
5. My hearing is exceptionally good.
6. The social issues mean that I am more inclined to practice my clarinet than I am to waste time with people.
7. Very logical thinking= almost no trouble with Music Theory.
8. I have a near-photographic memory and an occasional 6-hour attention span when I am interested in a subject.
Edit
Wow, I wrote a lot.
Another characteristic of the syndrome: a tendency to go on and on about subjects that are of interest to the person...
Further edit...
Once I get my criteria for Creative Genius Syndrome up on my own BBoard, I'll post a link here. Creative Genius Syndrome was something that I made up in high school to explain myself. It is very, very, very, very similar to Asperger's.
(Now shut up, Rachel.)
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2005-10-11 04:00
I've seen a lot of speculation regarding Bill Gates having Asperger's Syndrome. He's done OK for himself. In fact, if he were to take up clarinet, he most likely could afford any clarinet he wanted. Heck, he's rich enough to buy Buffet, Selmer and LeBlanc out of petty cash.
I've never sought any professional advice on this, but my wife (not a psychiatrist or psychologist) is convinced that I have at least a mild case of Asperger's. I don't take well to travel, I'm a bit uncomfortable in unfamiliar situations, I'm quite tranquil when I perform on various instruments (i.e. not a lot of extra, wasted, motion), etc. Going down the list of Asperger's traits, a lot of them stick out. I DO have perfect pitch.
I'd say take that Asperger's lemon, and make lemonade with it.
These days, it seems that they can diagnose everyone with a bit of something. There aren't that many "perfect" people.
BTW, I've read that often, various infections when a person is young can cause such things as autism and Asperger's Syndrome. I had a lot of ear infections when I was a tot, so this would fit in my situation.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-10-11 10:52
Dear Rachel!
We have a 7-year old son diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome. I’ve learned that to create stability in chaos he is dependent in certain basic routines.
From reading your post, my interpretation is that it seems like your basic problem is a lack of organization in your life. This creates chaos, bad control, maybe a bad self-esteem and a following depression. (This is only my own interpretation of the spiral you’re in).
I would suggest that you first of all get your Asperger’s diagnosis if you don’t have one already. I would imagine that a socially oriented country like Australia has a similar system like ours (Sweden) that with a diagnosis you can get a personal assistant to help you organizing your life. If you can’t get an assistant, get help from your parents or a friend. I don’t know you personally so I don’t know what kind of help you might need but generally speaking to feel organized in life you can start to get structure in your home.
Your assistant-parent-friend should help you to make lists of things you need to create routines for every day use. For our son’s sake we have made a weekly menu to avoid surprises:
Mon: Pasta, Tue: Fish, Wed: Meat, Thu: Pancakes, Fri: Chicken, Sat: Free choice, Sun: Pizza. Make a similar menu and a shopping list of things you need in your fridge to keep it going.
What’s also important for a basic structure at home is that each thing has its own place, that your clothes in the wardrobe have hangers and that your house is reasonably clean and tidy. Decide what day in the week you should clean the house and when to do the shopping and stick to the plan! Don’t forget to give yourself a reward after doing the boring bits: cinema, ice-cream, a new hat, a joint (joke!).
It’s also good to have a to-do-list for each day. Take your schedule for the Conservatory and fit in when to practice, time to study as well as other things. If it’s the day for cleaning the house or shopping you fit in that too.
Have your teacher to help you to get a good practice routine for every day use, like scales for one hour, etudes one hour and music for one hour or whatever you come up with.
Get help from someone you trust to organize your life and remember that Asperger’s Syndrome can be an advantage if you find your special talents and cultivate them. Many great people in history supposedly had a hint of it according to the books: Einstein, President Jefferson, Bill Gates and Mozart.
I hope that you don’t feel offended by me for giving you these basic advices but since I don’t know you personally I don’t know what your needs are. My intentions are the very best. Also, it feels a bit like I’m writing to my son in the future. Take it for what it’s worth.
All the best and a very good luck,
Alphie
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2005-10-11 22:02
"Mary,
Clinical depression is a very different beast from general sadness and what most people "know" as depression.
In most cases it does not improve with being "cheered up."
It sometimes requires years of talk therapy in addition to medications to balance the brain's chemicals.
Katrina
(I've got clinical depression, and so does my sister...)"
Ah.......... :( that's terrible....
My heart goes out to you Rachel, and you will be in my prayers.
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2005-10-12 02:57
Alphie: What you have said is correct. It is not the whole reason for the depression, though.
You are right about the lack of organisation. This has always been a major issue for me. If I have read your reasoning correctly, you are saying that that if I bring a sense of organisation and structure into my life in general , it will follow through into my musical life. This seems to make sense.
As for things like food, shopping... I live with my parents, so they make the decisions about those sort of things.
Even if I did, I get extremely bored if I have too much routine and structure in what I eat- I like a sense of variety.
As for a teacher- I don't have one. I am fairly sure, though, that if I ask the clarinet teacher at my university to help me, he will.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-12 03:04
[ Suggestions have been offered, but we're now starting to go around in circles, repeating the same information. For now this topic is closed. If anyone has anything new to offer they can contact me and the thread can be reopened - GBK ]
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