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 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2005-06-25 15:05

SueSmith wrote:

> > Imagine, if the first composition of Stravinsky's you ever saw (without even aural exposure to his works) was Three Pieces. I'm sure someone of your caliber would be able to decipher the style quite adequately, yet by studying (through scores and aurally) the style of Stravinsky before hand - you would certainly have a greater understanding of the work and Stravinsky's style as a whole.> >

I thought about this a bit more.

Of course, in general, you're right. It's really worth tracking down related material.

But actually, my own experience of coming to understand the Stravinsky Three Pieces a bit better, occurred really without my hearing anyone else playing them.

I remember saying to my then teacher, "I don't really understand the first piece, or how I should play it."

In the end I came to see it first as melody, and then rather abstractly as a dialogue between groups of notes that 'belong together' modally, and others that introduce themselves as 'strangers' -- and then take over, redefining the first group as 'strangers'. I also came to appreciate how the gracenotes operate in the scheme, and a double-vision of seeing the melody as 'intervals' rather than 'notes' helped too.

Similar 'abstract' things are true about the Berio. If you look at it, you see that a sequence of rhythmic patterns are applied to a sequence of notes, the sequences being of different lengths. And gracenotes are important, again.

When you begin to appreciate that sort of structure, it generates a feel for what is important about what is written. That's a very powerful interpretative stimulus, and I'd say you should trust it over and above any recording you might hear. And, just as an aside, I have to say that I don't care for any of the recordings of the Sequenza I've heard.

Also, I don't care for the version for saxophone, that Berio came (I'd have to say, in my opinion, wrongly) to prefer to the one for clarinet, because....wait for it ...."it sounds more 'jazzy'". Yet the clarinet version, well played, has much more intimacy and much more depth, because the instrument can do many more of the things required, and I'd say necessary, in the piece.

So, pfui to him. What a trivial response from a worldclass composer. Still, if you'd played Wagners 'Siegfried Idyll' with Berio conducting, or heard him conducting Schoenberg's 'Ode to Napoleon', you wouldn't be so surprised.

Finally, why would any of the guys who organise to get their recordings out there understand all of this more than us, Sue?-)

Trust your judgement.

Tony



Post Edited (2005-06-25 17:36)

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 Topics Author  Date
 Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
John J. Moses 2005-06-20 13:36 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Kevin 2005-06-20 15:58 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
GBK 2005-06-20 17:39 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Jack Kissinger 2005-06-20 20:42 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-20 21:26 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
davyd 2007-09-19 17:35 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
GBK 2005-06-20 21:12 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
John J. Moses 2005-06-21 03:07 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
diz 2005-06-21 09:17 
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John J. Moses 2005-06-21 13:18 
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John J. Moses 2005-06-21 17:29 
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Bob A 2005-06-21 22:39 
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John J. Moses 2005-06-22 03:53 
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clarnibass 2005-06-22 05:56 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-22 13:51 
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 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-22 13:57 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
John J. Moses 2005-06-22 14:21 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Bob A 2005-06-22 16:59 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Mark Charette 2005-06-22 17:06 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Bob A 2005-06-22 20:14 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-23 13:50 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-23 19:14 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
John J. Moses 2005-06-24 03:06 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
SueSmith 2005-06-24 03:22 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
John J. Moses 2005-06-24 03:42 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
SueSmith 2005-06-24 03:50 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-24 22:26 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-24 19:55 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
SueSmith 2005-06-24 23:55 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-25 01:30 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-25 15:05 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
ken 2005-06-25 03:14 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
SueSmith 2005-06-25 17:44 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2005-06-25 22:23 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Ken Shaw 2006-02-20 00:45 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tony Pay 2006-02-20 03:26 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Tom Puwalski 2006-02-20 12:24 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
Ryan25 2006-02-20 15:13 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
David Spiegelthal 2006-02-20 15:51 
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Tom Puwalski 2006-02-20 17:14 
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allencole 2006-02-20 17:16 
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crnichols 2006-02-20 17:21 
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John J. Moses 2006-02-20 18:36 
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Phat Cat 2006-02-20 21:00 
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aberkow 2006-02-20 22:02 
 Re: Neidich's Copland vs. Goodman's Copland?  new
BobD 2007-09-18 22:44 
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