 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: James
Date: 2000-02-29 18:40
I have an Albert system clarinet with no brand or serial number on it (believe me, I have looked). It is stamped with a B (the only number or letter anywhere on the instrument) but when I play a note, it comes out higher (about 1/4 step higher). I guess I have a high pitch Bb, but it is about 1 1/4 inches shorter than my regular Bb. Are the high-pitch instruments actually that much shorter than the low-pitch modern instruments? Thanks for your help.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Eoin
Date: 2000-02-29 23:02
It appears that Albert-system clarinets, which have a different bore diameter, are shorter than Boehm system instruments of the same pitch. Perhaps someone who has both can confirm this.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2000-02-29 23:22
Eoin wrote:
-------------------------------
It appears that Albert-system clarinets, which have a different bore diameter, are shorter than Boehm system instruments of the same pitch. Perhaps someone who has both can confirm this.
-------------------------------
In "The Clarinet" Rendall implies that there were different bore diameters for Albert system clarinets depending on the maker and their market.
I have an Albert Wurlitzer Low Pitch Bb clarinet. It is perhaps 1/4" shorter than my Leblanc Symphonie II Boehm clarinet. I also have a Frank Holton by Beaufort & Company Albert Low Pitch Bb clarinet. It is the same length as the Wurlitzer one.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2000-02-29 23:34
Looking at my Albert and Boehm clarinets more closely, the difference in length is entirely in the length of the bell. If you measure from the top of the bell to the top of the clarinet, my Alberts are the same length as my Boehms.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron
Date: 2000-03-01 05:32
Hi, James -
If it plays sharp, it's sharp - no question about that. And that looks like a HP horn - in my limited opinion. Usually they're imprinted somewhere to indicate that. The more recent ones that aren't marked are most likely LP horns. I have several Alberts, some marked, some not. The length may vary, but not much, among them. Overall though, they're pretty close to Boehms. After all, a certain bore/length ratio will produce a certain pitch no matter what system it is. Bore size and length will vary proportionally a little between makers but, being *that* short, like yours, sounds suspiciously like it may be a C clarinet, maybe a HP-C. I have a LP-C (Albert) that's about that length, well maybe a smidge shorter but that may be an indication it's a C.
One clue; if it's wood it may be HP. If it's plastic, more likely than not it's a LP.
How'd you get into this mess? (smile).... No brand name, no signeficant markings. There's not much you can do except check it against a tuner. If you want to play with a standard pitch group you can mickey mouse it a little, but the struggle doing it that way is hardly worth the effort. String down the bore will all but kill a clean sound, and possibly your enthusiasm for playing anything, and make intonation erratic at best. However, if you can find some other HP instrument players you might have a world of fun with it. I mean, the instrument itself may play like a dream at whatever pitch it is. HP, too, can be almost anything higher than A-440, depending on who, when and where it was made.
Your post topic reads: Another Albert. Do you have others you can compare it to?
ron b.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2000-03-01 07:39
Just a few thoughts on the length of the clarinet:
When measuring the instrument, I allways measure from the bell to the mouthpiece tip.
Not all mouthpieces for Bb clarinets need to have the same length, especially 'historic' ones may be less 'unified' and so some longer or shorter. If once the mouthpiece was replaced with a modern one of a different length, this could produce a slight 'high pitch', too, on the other hand you will get a tuning difference from 'long tones' (low chalumeau and clarion) to 'short tones' (e.g. clarion upper C and throat tones). Also you'll get tuning effects if the bore of the mouthpice doesn't match the bore of the instrument. (An alto clarinet mouthpice, less then 1 mm different in length to the standard mpc. of my A clarinet, but approx. 17 mm dia instead of approx. 15 mm, causes a terrible misstune at my A instrument: throat tones allmost 2 semitones down, long tones approx. 1 semitone down.)
If the 'bell bore' starts more down the instrument and the 'bell diameter' (inside, of course) is less this will reduce the overall length of the instrument (at same pitch), too. A calculation to see the effects is quite simple (for engineers, at least): A tube without tone holes can be mathematically described as a series of 'electrical 4 pole elements', each describing a cylindric section with a certain cross sectional area (this results in a series of complex number multiplications of a-parameter fields - then calculate the input resistace when the output is shortened). Don't forget, at the open end the 'cross sectional area' does not jump from the end value to infinite, it's more like a ball (you could use the approximation A = 4 * Pi * r**2 + A_tubeend).
Allthough perhaps too much mathematics,
I hope you got some interesting information here.
Arnold (the basset hornist)
P.S. (hopefully without any mistake)<pre>
_A_ = { { A_11, A_12 },
{ A_21, A_22 } } =
= { { cos(l / c * w), j sin(l / c * w) / A },
{ j A sin(l / c * w), - cos(l / c * w) } };
w = 2 * Pi * f;
f = Frequency;
l = Length;
c = speed of accoustic wave;
A = cross sectional area;
</pre>- without 'friction', off course -
Don't forget to negate A_12 and A_22 prior and past the multiplications!
If you find the A-parameters for conical sections [ _A_(A_start, A_end, l) ], please let me know.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: James
Date: 2000-03-01 15:04
I don't know how I got into this mess either, Don (smiling). I checked the length of each joint against my modern buffet and each one is shorter (bell slightly, the upper and lower signifigantly). I think the barrel is not the original one based on a comparison of the rings on the lower joint and the barrel. The barrel is a 65 mm, comprable to my buffet. Now I when I put a 53 mm on the horn which would now make all parts shorter than the buffet, it plays pretty close to 1/2 step higher than the note fingered (C registers C#). It is stamped with a B on both joints. Could I have a B clarinet? (I have never heard of such a thing) What a mess. I guess I have complicated matters even moreso. No, I will not be playing it with others, so I probably will not worry about it and chalk it up to an extremely out of tune LP Bb. Thanks for everybodys help so far and if you can shed any more light on this with the short barrel, let me know.
James
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-01 16:02
WOW, what a thread! To me, B means Bb. Try a 66-68 mm barrel of same diameter to see how it plays! Fine work, Arnold, like Lee Gibson's work, "Cl Acoustics", it sure can take [and deserves] a great deal of work. Will consider it for my next retirement! Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2000-03-01 16:54
James wrote:
-------------------------------
... It is stamped with a B on both joints. Could I have a B clarinet? (I have never heard of such a thing)
-------------------------------
In much of Europe, particularly Germany, the designation B refers to Bb. Another designation is used for an instrument actually in B natural or for the key signature of B natural. In some countries the letter H is used to refer to B natural.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
