 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Klarinet37
Date: 2005-03-08 15:06
Well, I did it.
I was browsing through the BBoard and saw someone mentioned Backun barrels. I looked at their web site and got hooked. I ordered two barrels and one bell. (One barrel will probably go back) They are fitting the barrel(s) for my large bore clarinet. (A Leblanc Dynamic-H)
Please, anyone who has taken this plunge, give me some feedback on how it has improved your tone, response, intonation........really.
I ordered (at their advise) the Cocobolo barrel w/grenadilla rings and a grenadilla bell.
I play mostly in (great) concerts bands in the DC area.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-08 16:01
Night and day. The barrel really freed up my sound and greatly improved response. The bell is icing on the cake. The change from a bell is more noticeable if you are using a stock barrel.
You will likely have to re-learn your intonation with the new barrel. Luckily for me, my intonation was already, shall we say, in flux when I got my barrel.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
|
|
|
Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-03-08 20:11
Top notch!! I play on Morrie's stuff exclusively and can say that I've never been happierin every respect.
Highly recommended,
Michael
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Erdinet
Date: 2005-03-08 20:38
I too just got some barrells and a bell (second stock bell, that is) from Backun. I was really hoping not to like the bell and simply shrug it off as having little or no effect on my sound. Well, clutch the pearls dearie....think again.
The barrells are great and do much to darken my tone. I do not find much change in my intonation, but I am still playing with them. My biggest impression is that there is no HUGE difference between my stock barrell and the Backuns.
The bell on the other hand is a revelation. Changing registers feels much more secure. And though I have not a lot of experimenting yet, it seems like the bell puts a really thick sheen on my sound that does not seem to dampen my ability to project. I really like it it... a lot.
Of course all of this is subject to change....
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-03-08 22:11
I like the sound I get with the Barrel, and like the feeling that the Bell gives me - very smooth over the register break and more. You wouldn't think that the Bell gives diddly of a difference, but it actually does!
My wife thinks so too, she spent 7 hours there with me last summer trying them and listening.
Post Edited (2005-03-09 00:38)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-03-08 22:35
I would try it out. But I can't afford it (prices are too much for me).
US Army Japan Band
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-09 03:15
Also, please note that each barrel and bell is unique. I've tried quite a few, and there is a WIDE variation between them. Each one plays differently for each person as well.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
|
|
|
Author: bkmorton
Date: 2005-03-09 10:43
They even make clarinets now.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Klarinet37
Date: 2005-03-09 11:01
Yea, I talked to Joel Jaffe of Backun about their clarinets. There is a four year waiting list!
10,000CD for one if I understood correctly.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2005-03-09 14:03
1500 bucks on equipment like this? Come on.
20 additional minutes of additional proper practice every day will do more for your playing that any barrel or bell. And it is free!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-03-09 14:07
With price tags that will make you swoon,
New barrels and bells by Backun.
They claim to fix tuning,
With no cutting or pruning.
The cost? Like 3 weeks in Cancun
I'm not rich like an oil tycoon,
And I hate to be so picayune.
But when friends spend their loot,
It's so hard to refute,
The claims made by Morrie Backun
I met a young man, just last June.
He told me about his bassoon.
He was very vocal,
'Bout his gold plated bocal.
Claimed EVERYTHING now played in tune....GBK
|
|
|
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2005-03-09 14:37
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2005-03-09 17:03)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Klarinet37
Date: 2005-03-09 14:52
Well, it's not $1,500. Only $700 for a barrel and a bell (200 + 500). Actually, you can buy a bell quite a bit cheaper if you don't mind minor cosmetic flaws.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Klarinet37
Date: 2005-03-09 14:57
mystery science dieter, look at the web site and see the reviews. Are you going to tell these pro's the same thing? Come on now, do you really think that 20 minutes a day is going to improve your tone that much? Heck, if that was the case, I'd buy a Bundy screamer with a plastic reed and I should be fine eh?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-09 15:01
1500? Well, if you get them for your A and Bb both, I suppose it is.
Following your line of reasoning, would you also say that with another 30 minutes of practice, you could just as well play on a plastic Bundy?
For more money, you get an instrument that plays nicer; that rule is common to just about any instrument. You then save, as MSD suggests, 20 minutes a day of instrument-compensation practice, which you can then spend on more productive work.
$700 for a significant instrument upgrade isn't all that bad, in my opinion. String players spend more than that on a bow.
If you only have a few hundred to spend, though, I'd first get a full overhaul for the instrument if you've never had one.
With all the obsession over reeds, mouthpieces, ligatures, and makes of clarinets, I find it curious that the "just practice another 20 minutes" argument (which I've heard outside this board) only comes up with the Backun equipment.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
|
|
|
Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2005-03-09 15:33
>>>>You then save, as MSD suggests, 20 minutes a day of instrument-compensation practice, which you can then spend on more productive work.<<<<
Wrong, I didn't say that.
I said that 20 more minutes a day of proper practice would do more good that the Backun equipment. I don't think the equipment will save you ANY time. I don't think it will make you a better clarinet player, and it CERTAINLY WILL NOT make you a better musician.
And what is "instrument compensation practice?" If it means learning how to play the clarinet, you don't EVER get to skip that. You might as well hire someone to play for you if you think any piece of equipment will eliminate that.
>>>Following your line of reasoning, would you also say that with another 30 minutes of practice, you could just as well play on a plastic Bundy?<<<<
Now you are just being absurd. I do play on a plastic clarinet (a greenline) and it works just fine, thank you. I do play a custom barrel (a Chadash) which does have advantages, but it doesn't make me a better clarinet player or eliminate the need to play scales every day.
>>>>mystery science dieter, look at the web site and see the reviews. Are you going to tell these pro's the same thing<<<<
Every single one of those people was a great clarinet player (or at least as good as they were ever going to be) before they ever used a piece of Backun equipment. They find his stuff enhances their playing. That is good. Not one of them would claim that his or her job depends on continuing to play that stuff.
I will ask what I always ask. How on earth did Robert Marcellus and Harold Wright (not to even speak of Daniel Bonade, etc.) manage to master the clarinet so comprehensively without all this magical equipement we 21st centrury clarinet players can now buy? Answer, they knew how to play. . .period.
>>>With all the obsession over reeds, mouthpieces, ligatures, and makes of clarinets, I find it curious that the "just practice another 20 minutes" argument (which I've heard outside this board) only comes up with the Backun equipment.<<<<
I will say it about any piece of equipment. If you practice more and properly (perhaps under the guidance of a decent teacher of which there are so few) you will have better reeds, your mouthpiece will play better, and you can have a friend sit there and hold your reed on instead of using a ligature at all. You will play better.
You can either play or you can't. There are no short cuts. If this equipment is worth $1500 to you, great, it is money well spent. But if you didn't get out of the first round of an audition last week, showing up next week with a new bell and barrel won't change that.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-03-09 15:34
EEBaum wrote:
> With all the obsession over reeds, mouthpieces, ligatures, and
> makes of clarinets, I find it curious that the "just practice
> another 20 minutes" argument (which I've heard outside this
> board) only comes up with the Backun equipment.
Possibly you've only noticed with the Backun threads, but it comes up often.
In defense of Morrie - he can charge whatever the market will bear. Right now the market for his goods is good enough to command premium prices.
Will an extra 20 minutes a day be worth more than a bell and barrel? I personally think, for most of us - yes. That's about an extra 100 hours a year - not an insignificant amount.
For those out there who are already proficient at clarinet and have the extra money - why not try the Backun products? But for those that still need a lot of practice - and I think that includes most of us - I think the time investment is worth a lot more.
I remember well listening in on a converstion in Ben Armato's booth a few years back at a Clarinetfest. A young woman wanted to buy his Reed Wizard. He had her play for him, and after playing he told her - "You don't want to spend all your money on this. Go down to that booth over there and get yourself a (Fobes Debut - Hite Premier - I don't remember which), a few boxes of V12s, and see me next year."
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-03-09 16:59
I don't think that Morrie charges premium prices at all. He isn't cheap, but what which is good is cheap - a cheap product.
And, he guarantees his products FOR LIFE. Your life - ya don't like it of want to play it anymore, you get a refund.
Anybody else in the business do that??
And the comment somebody sniped about "just practice 20 more minutes a day" doesn't fly.
His stuff is really good. Will it solve Clarinet problems that a player has? Probably not, but it does help make playing a little easier.
Post Edited (2005-04-07 01:02)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-03-09 17:10
David...
I guess the tongue in cheek humor of my limerick touched a nerve.
As we've said MANY times before, any new piece of equipment often boils down to how much "bang for the buck" YOU are getting.
Only YOU can decide that.
BTW - I have tried Morrie's products. I liked them, but did not buy ...GBK
|
|
|
|
|
Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2005-03-09 17:16
>>>>And the comment somebody sniped about "just practice 20 more minutes a day" doesn't fly.<<<<
So, according to you, buying stuff will do you more good than practicing?
Let me put it this way. . .
Name me one person who bought this stuff and suddenly got called to play in a major symphony.
I know many superb players who upon careful trials found no value at all in the stuff and several more who bought and then stopped playing it after a few weeks. As for myself, I found the differences between the stuff and what I currently play to be extremely subtle and not entirely positive.
They say the country is in a recession. The almost mindless expendature on ebay mouthpieces, magic ligatures and other space-age equipement suggests that a lot of clarinet players have a lot of money sitting around.
Post Edited (2005-03-09 17:25)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-03-09 17:20
Let's get off this sniping, please. Morrie makes fine products and prices them where he wants to.
The question was directed at people who bought the products.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-03-09 17:55
At a very high level there won't be much bang for the buck in literally any product. If there is a deficiency, than that would make a difference much more so (say your mouthpiece is stuffy and you get one that isn't, or your barrel isn't very good dimensions and you have problems caused by it) .
I tried many, many, many of both barrels and bells at his shop. Some were for me, and some were not. Personally I don't think that his products should be used to "fix a problem" as they are better suited for an advanced player who has already worked out the practicing issues of playing really well.
But again, no product (except maybe a good reed) will get you into an Orchestra.
Also, if you tried his product at a place like ClarFest with the Clarinet Hell in the background, you aren't going to get a single thing out of almost any product. Only careful consideration in a practice room without others racket can a decent opinion be formed.
So ya do whatever works for you........
|
|
|
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2005-03-09 18:54
David -- where do I buy one of those reeds?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-03-09 19:23
Maybe I should re-phrase it to read "a bad reed could prevent that Orchestral job from happening".
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Klarinet37
Date: 2005-03-09 21:35
Thanks Mark and Dave,
I didn't mean to start a war. I was just looking for some feedback (positive or otherwise) on Backun products. I received that and then some. Thanks to all.
I'm not in ANY way a pro. I am just a 37 year old who played in the Army and now plays for sheer enjoyment in some good concert bands. BUT, I DO want to sound and play the best I can.....with practice AND if I DO see a new product out there that may help or enhance what I already possess, then so be it. I just bought myself a new mouthpiece to try. A Clark W Fobes Cicero 13. Not because I think it's a magic mouthpiece, but because it might, just might, be better than what I have. Any crime in that?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-03-09 21:55
Klarinet37,
I say that if you can afford it, and don't mind paying that money, it's not going to hurt to try. The above posters are correct in saying that it's not going to help your technique any, but you certainly know that, and it'll do what it's designed to do - change your sound. Whether it changes it significantly and positively enough for you to warrant keeping the product is all that matters.
As with most products out there, there will be pros that endorse it. And pros that tried it and liked it, but didn't want to buy it. And pros that say they didn't like it. They way I look at it is if Backun can routinely charge 500 dollars for a barrel and 200 dollars for a bell, and the demand is still high enough that he hasn't had to lower his prices to keep his business going, then it's probably not that bad a product! ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) COULD he charge less and keep his business going? Probably. But if people are still lining up and ordering his products at these prices, why would he?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
|
|
|
Author: clarinets1
Date: 2005-03-09 22:08
another teacher does it all in limerick form.
ha ha ha, GBK!
~~JK
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-03-09 22:42
If I recall, the bell is what costs more, not the barrel. The barrel is around $200.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-09 23:34
My point, though poorly stated, was just a query as to why people get hostile about this equipment upgrade. Why not spend that extra 20 minutes a day AND upgrade the equipment? The argument seems to present it in an either-or manner, which is what bothers me.
I never said it makes me a better player, and I certainly don't expect to be called into a symphony because of it.
I have indeed noticed that my reeds, mouthpiece, etc. "play better" with more practice. An upgrade in equipment **in addition to this** compounds the benefits.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
|
|
|
Author: emylooa
Date: 2005-03-10 01:35
Are you CERTAIN that the pronunciation isn't "BACON"? ;-D
Sorry, couldn't help it!!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-03-10 05:39
"They way I look at it is if Backun can routinely charge 500 dollars for a barrel and 200 dollars for a bell, and the demand is still high enough that he hasn't had to lower his prices to keep his business going, then it's probably not that bad a product!"
Many people pay a lot of money for lots of things they don't need. Many will pay tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars for things like furnitures or jewelery. I rarely see a table I like more than the $50 table I have, and I actually saw this show called Antiques Road Show and they had a small pot that costs $50,000, and many people wanted to buy it for that price.
Not saying anything bad about Backun products, since I haven't even tried them. If people are buying Backuns products it probably means they are very good, but doesn't mean they are worth their price, or that they are better than other products.
I never use a barrel or bell that didn't come with my clarinet (well I do on my Buffet since the original barrel cracked). None of my favorite clarinetists play on special barrels or bells either. What does that tells you? I really don't know.
If you are happy with your Backun barrel and bell then that is great!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-03-10 06:57
I ordered 2 each of bells and barrels from Morrie (actually from Joel, his US imports guy). I'm keeping one of each, and the difference in tone is just amazing. I have an Evette Schaffer clarinet, and was looking to replace it. But, alas, I couldn't afford an entire new clarinet. But, these new pieces make my old, not-really-professional clarinet play with a professional sound. The whole thing will still have to be replaced at some point, but that point has been pushed far back.
As far as specific pieces: I tried the bells first, and one was definitely better than the other. Although both were an improvement on my current one (which is actually a cheap Boosey Hawkes bell that came with my clarinet, as I bought it second hand in a music shop). Then, I messed with the barrel. With the new barrel, the bell I didn't like quite as much sounded even better than the first. But then, of course, I tried the other barrel. And it was all over. I was hooked.
What surprised me most about Morrie's products is that the tone is not really dramatically changed. What changes most is how much more focused the air is going through your clarinet. So, intonation is immediately improved since, were it not for variances in air pressure, a good clarinet would always be in tune with itself. Plus, with a much more consistent resistance, the sound produced becomes more even through the entire range. So, the most important change, for me, was that I was able to rely on my clarinet to do exactly what I tell it to more than I could before.
(And, likely, my private teacher is going to buy the ones I didn't like since they seemed to do wonders on his Festival).
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Erdinet
Date: 2005-03-10 10:20
Well state Goat. I could not agree more...
|
|
|
|
|
Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2005-03-10 13:01
>>>were it not for variances in air pressure, a good clarinet would always be in tune with itself.<<<
Wrong
|
|
|
|
|
Author: lllebret
Date: 2005-03-10 13:55
Mystery science dieter is right that even resistence doesn't imply perfect intonation, however, it makes it easier to make intonation adjustments w/o tonal changes. I also feel (like GoatTnder) that Backun's barrel and bell help even out the resistence between register shifts thus making it easier to play and I like the slight changes in timbre also. Imho, no changes in equipment (including a new clarinet) besides a mouthpiece and reed change, will make a dramatic difference in sound. I'm going to sound more like me on my mouthpiece and reed on a plastic fantastic than I will on your mouthpiece and reed (properly sterilized!) on my Buffet.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2005-03-10 14:05
"I'm going to sound more like me on my mouthpiece and reed on a plastic fantastic than I will on your mouthpiece and reed (properly sterilized!) on my Buffet."
Given some time to adjust, you still will sound like yourself. It may be due to the fact that you have certain individual physical characteristics and ways of approaching the instrument. You might also choose reeds that help you reach your "sound" better. This helps to explain the fact that despite the fact that player XXX changes to mouthpiece ZZZ and finds a world of difference, the listener they still hears it as player XXX. They equipment hopefully makes it easier for the player to achieve the desired result.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2005-03-10 14:31
Attachment: buffetneck.jpg (63k)
Morrie does many other things besides make bells and barrels. He made a new neck for my Buffet bass so that the horn could be raised in relation to the ground and my right wrist wasn't strained so much. Works great and actually improves the intonation of the horn, a Grabner mouthpiece helped a lot too. Anyway the price of this little piece of pipe makes a clarinet barrel look like a bargain but it solved my problem so I'm not complaining.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2005-03-10 14:43
A Bacon Bell for $500 bucks???? Who needs one--not ME!! I've got a Liberty Bell on my one of my R13s that plays just fine. Who made it? Where did I find it?? Just got lucky, I guess. You see, my original bell had this small crack that I had pinned.....................
(sorry--couldn't resist a little humor here)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Fred
Date: 2005-03-10 14:44
I really don't understand all the bickering about money. While $700 isn't cheap, there are loads of people on this board that will buy an Opus or a Prestige rather than an R13. Those buyers are not generally questioned about their clarinet being exorbitantly expensive, yet they spend more for their upgrade than the Backun products cost.
I don't play Backun products and probably never will, but if $700 dramatically improves your "already professional" equipment, that's not a bad investment.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2005-03-10 15:08
I guess it depends how you define 'dramatic improvement.'
To me that would imply something obvious to anyone with a good ear who is listening.
In a blind test, I doubt 1 person in 1000 could tell the difference between Ricardo Morales (or any other excellent player) playing with or without Backun equipment 9 out of 10 times.
To me, that is not dramatic improvement, or even dramatic anything.
To say that it is 'dramatic' is marketing hype. No more no less. Yes, you may hear it yourself or feel it, but will it be OBVIOUS to a listener 25 - 100 feet away (the way most people experience a clarinetist)?
In addition, many people do not feel that the equipment in question represents any kind of improvement at all. It is not accepted fact.
I was once at one of those clarinet conferences many years ago. Some manufacturer had invented a new kind of ligature. It sold for well over $100, which back then was an astronomical amount for a ligature. The big headline player at the conference, a major symphony principal everyone here will have heard of, played his recital on one of them. Of course he sounded incredible, he is the type of player who always has and still does. The next day, they sold out of the things. It was amazing. Now it is many years later. No one plays the thing, no one who bought one used it longer than a few weeks because the illusion of improvement faded and the flaws of the product became very apparent.
This is not to say that Backun's products are not wonderful. To those who believe in them they are. BUt the thread started because someone dropped a barrel of cash on some products he had never tried. His decision was made based on stuff he read on the internet, including the marketing material from the manufacturers own webste (admittedly very effective stuff). To me that is alarming. It is alarming to me that people will pay $1000 bucks for an antique mouthpiece on eBay that they haven't tried.
But the fact remains that the clarinet will never play itself. Never never never. Any product that makes the clarinet 'easier' does only that. The clarinet is still a beastly instrument to play well. Until you do it, you can only guess at how hard it really is.
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-03-10 15:17
OK. The horse is dead enough ...
|
|
|
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
