 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-12 07:19
I'm quitting my PM job (due to time-constraints) and so will be available for my not so local community band. They need another bass or contrabass clarinet. As I don't think I'll be leaving it anytime soon, I am more than happy to help out with bass/contrabass on the stipulation that I can move to soprano at some point a few years (sounds wierd to have 'terms', but since it's a volunteer band, I just want to make sure that I can ENJOY my time in it). They will need to buy one. I'd like to do a little research to help out the director (a trumpet player) and maybe help 'guide' him in the right direction. I don't know how well he'll respond to a 22 year old 'kid' giving him advice, but I can direct him to this thread which will hopefully have some good ideas.
Alexi
PS - Also, I know there's tons of bass clarinet threads, but I don't even know WHERE to begin for contrabass clarinet (couldn't find much pertinent purchasing information through searches), so figured may as well lump in bass clarinet in here too. Links to other threads are fine too if you got 'em.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2005-01-12 10:07
contrabass clarinets are way too expensive new.
When you have the money , go for it .
Otherwise, leblanc metal contrabasses are not bad and can sound good . They are also very "playable" once they are regulated well.
Mouthpieces : are not too important for those beasts. The original leblanc and selmer mouthpiece didn't make a difference in the sound or playability. The reeds and an impeccable embouchure are the most important things .
I never had troubles buying a used instrument on ebay . My leblanc ( straight ) comes from ebay also. Looking for an affordable curved one though.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-12 12:49
FYI: The band has a fund which it will use for these purchases. And they are not opposed to buying a used overhauled instrument. I don't how much of the band's alloted fund he (the band director) is willing to spend, but will come back to him with any ideas that I get from here. Thanks.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ray
Date: 2005-01-12 13:14
I think you will have a great time playing either, but I suggest you may like the bass clarinet better for some practical reasons.
I have a straight contrabass here - the case is just three inches short of six feet long. That is really long. It doesn't go around corners easily. It is heavy, and a bear to get in the car. You need something about 30 inches tall to sit on when you play, so you will probably carry your own drum throne or bar stool. The band parts are not inspiring to play.
The bass clarinet is easier to buy and carry, reeds don't cost $6 each, the parts are a little better, and you'll find that you can have a great time with one in a clarinet choir. The contra can make some awesome low sounds, but the novelty of that wears off. The bass clarinet, in my opinion, has a much better sound.
I agree that the Clark Fobes Debut contra mouthpiece is a winner.
Good luck,
Ray
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-01-12 23:29
Alexi,
Making contra choices really takes a lot of consideration from various factors; I would like to offer you some personal advice that hopefully can be of some use to you.
If you enjoy playing low clarinets, you will enjoy the contrabass clarinets more. But if you gravitate towards soprano instruments, then you will likely dread having to deal with the size and handling issues of low clarinets. Bass clarinet isn’t too bad for a soprano doubler, but the contras really demand commitment, otherwise they will dampen your playing spirit pretty quickly.
Certainly every situation will be different, but if low clarinets suit your temperament and your band already has a bass clarinet player, playing either contra-alto or contrabass clarinet is the way to go. Especially if it’s not your own money you have to worry about. But if your band needs its first bass clarinet, then getting a bass clarinet will be more sensible.
I play both contras in our wind band and personally it’s a blast, because I prefer low reeds. In term of finding parts to play, I say about 20% of the time you will either have a proper contrabass or contra-alto part to play on, but majority of the time you will have to transpose or play alto or bass clarinet parts sounding an octave lower. If you are comfortable with the transposition trick, you can play parts for low C-pitched instruments like string bass, bassoon, contrabassoon, or tuba on the contra-alto. Alternatively you can play sax parts in corresponding keys. Depending on how you look at it, the scarcity of proper contra clarinet parts could be a limitation or an opportunity for varied musical experiences.
If you are fine with this, and you like low clarinets, and the band is footing the bill, then you come to the point of considering which contra and what brand.
First, the choices for BBb contrabass.
If you are going to be transporting the contra a lot, you need to consider the size of the instrument, especially the size of the case. Any straight horns should give you serious second thoughts. If you have limited car space or don’t want to subject to physical torture, then you should probably consider contra-alto over contrabass in general, because of the smaller size and lighter weight. Don’t consider any straight one-piece contrabass, such as the Vito, if you don’t have a van to transport a 6-foot case or are strong physically to lug around 45 pounds up and down the stairs, around the corner, etc.
But yet, the Vito contrabass is a pretty good horn and widely available at low reasonable price, hence the dilemma…
If money is no object, then you can consider Leblanc or Selmer.
A Leblanc coiled/paperclip metal contrabass will have a smaller case for you to carry, older low D model goes down to D, but the low C model will give you 3 additional semi-tones at the bottom. But it’s pricier and you need to be more careful handling it, especially during assembly/disassembly if the instrument requires such to fit into the case.
AFAIK, Leblanc straight metal contrabass breaks into two joints. If so, this would be an advantage over the Vito. But only low Eb is offered.
Selmer Paris makes the most expensive contrabass. You will be the envy of the group if you should be fortunate to have access to play it. It goes down to low C, but breaks in 2 and requires assembly/disassembly. In addition to worrying about bent keys and rods, you have the added worries about owing a wood instrument…
I own a Vito, it plays great and handling it is a nightmare. I transport it on a dolly to save my back and shoulders. It gives a pleasing sound and projects well. I use the stock Woodwind mouthpiece and Fobes Debut mouthpiece with #2 Vandoren contrabass reeds. I highly recommend Vito if you can find one in good condition and if you have access to a local repair tech familiar with contras, as it does require some attention from time to time. It would also be highly advantageous if you are handy/knowledgeable enough to tackle some of the adjustments yourself. You will save time and money. My next step up would be a low C Leblanc paperclip. The Selmer Paris is a nice dream to have, but practically out of reach for most contra clarinettists.
My contra-alto is a straight metal Leblanc. Feels like a big bass clarinet but with a coarser sound. The sound is even metallic I would say, it takes a bit getting used to. I hear that Selmer/Bundy contra-altos have a more-clarinet sweet sound, but I haven’t tried so can’t say. The Leblanc also takes Vandoren contrabass reeds; in fact, Leblanc/Vito mouthpieces are interchangeable across sizes and makes.
This horn breaks into 2 to fit into the case, so handling it is not a big problem. I believe the Selmer/Bundy horns don’t, they are one-piece so the case is a bit longer.
Anyway, the metal Leblanc and the resonite Selmer/Bundy are likely what you come across the most often. And they are good horns when properly setup. There is also the Vito contra-alto, which is probably ranked slightly below the above two, and Buffet Crampton and Selmer Paris both also make a model. They are pricier but built for professional use, so good luck if you are able to convince your band to buy either.
Regards,
Willy
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-01-13 08:04
I just want to add that the Selmer contra-alt clarinet is low E if I'm not mistaken, and the Buffet contra-alt is low C. The Buffet is also much more expensive.
About contra-bass clarinets, the three players I heard on contra-bass (on CDs) played Selmer wood instruments. The sound was really great. Never heard Leblanc contra-alt or contra-bass so can't comment on these.
Good luck.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-01-13 14:08
The older Selmer Eb contras go to low E. The current model goes to Eb.
Don't count on getting a contra through eBay in playable condition. All of them come from schools, where they've been banged about unmercifully. At the very least, they will need extensive work on the pads, and probably a full overhaul. The metal Leblancs have long rods that are always bent. The wood ones will have cracks. (My Selmer needed 30 pins.)
The mouthpieces are usually unplayable. Count on getting a new one. See http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=168739&t=168739.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-01-13 15:11
I got my Buescher (re-labelled Selmer Bundy) EEb contra-alto on eBay for $800 US, and despite Ken's warning mine was in good playing condition as received. I made a few of my 'usual' modifications to it, replaced just a few pads and corks, and it has served me well for the past three years. With a good mouthpiece and decent reeds it has a very "bass-clarinetish" sound, not at all coarse. Although I'm generally not a fan of Selmer-USA/Bundy instruments, I have to admit that their contra is a good instrument and one of the best bargains in the clarinet world as a used instrument.
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