 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-12-26 03:47
Out of curiosity, I did a search here on Rossi clarinets, and found a butt-load of posts/topics about them, but most were made 3-4 years ago. Discussion of the Rossi seems definitely less now - is that because they were the fad of a few years ago, and the fad has now dried up, or is it just that no one has anything to say about them? I remember several members saying that the Backun bells/barrels are the current fad, and that we might see that fad dry up in a couple years, and am just wondering if Rossi was the same way.
Also, I've heard Rossi's described as "mostly for solo or small ensemble settings", especially the Rosewoods. Is this a generally accepted opinion? I know Paquito D'Rivera plays on a Rossi (because of both his listing on the Rossi website and his performance on Calle 54), and I would think as a jazz artist, he would need a powerful sounding clarinet.
This is all just curiosity more than anything. I'm poor at the moment, so have no plans of buying any new instruments, especially an instrument of that price. But hey, if ClarinetFest is going to be back in the US summer after next, it's always nice to know these kinds of things...
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Author: frank
Date: 2004-12-26 05:33
I never thought of the Rossi's as being a fad with players. They seemed to be used more by european players than Americans. I own a French bore rosewood Bb and think it's a great and interesting horn. Does it replace my R13? No way. I actually prefer the R13 over the Rossi for a few reasons. Firstly, comfort level. Growing up on the R13 makes other horns seem foreign to me. Secondly, I prefer the overall sound quality, flexibility and keywork layout on my personal Buffet . The pitch and evenness on my R13 and Rossi on is about the same. As with any make, there are gems and duds alike. I would say that from the many Rossi's I've tried - compared to other makers - they are more consistent in playing characteristics. I think a great R13 is as good as any Rossi. I won't include price as a consideration, but if one were to consider it, you could but a SET of R13's for the price of ONE Rossi. Money is less of a factor to me when it comes to playing on a horn you absolutely love and can work with everyday. The Rossi is far too expensive I would think for most players to consider getting "faddish" with it.
I agree with the Backun equipment being a fad though. In recent memory, it seemed anyone who is anyone had a Moennig or a Pyne barrel. Then it was the Chadash. Now, it's that funny... kinda cool looking stuff that Backun sells. I own a bunch of his barrels and they play fine, but no better than some select stock or Chadash/Moennig Buffet barrels I have. I was at the Clarinetfest in 2004 and honestly, I heard alot of voodoo going on at the Backun table. It's quite amazing what comes out of some of vendor's mouths sometimes. I usually put on a great big smile and politely nod! lol Morrie Backun sure knows how to market merchandise. The bottom line is that if you tell a player, ANY level from beginner to pro that they sound better using the equipment you made, they will usually buy it or at least start to believe it. Especially true when other testers and bystanders around you seem to "hear" the difference and all agree that the new product is way better. It may be better, but how could anyone hear anything, subtle or blatant with all that noise going on at the table and elsewhere? Hmmmm...  Time is always the tell tale factor if a piece of equipment is worth its salt or not.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2004-12-26 13:27
I have noticed a lull in the discussion of Rossi clarinets, but I never thought of having one as being part of a fad. I also have a French-bore rosewood and I switch off between that and my 10G.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-12-26 14:26
My dream is to have a set of Rossi's. Don't know why they appeal to me so much, but I've always liked them. I heard Paquito D'Rivera play in concert once and that guy can really power it out (some might argue it's due to him having a large bore rosewood, but I think it's just cause that guy can really wail!)
If you go to Guy Legere's site (sponsor), you can find a link to one of his artists, Ted Lane, (actually, I just noticed his link is also posted on Rossi's site) who uses legere reeds exclusively on a rosewood Rossi clarinet. Granted, the mp3 files he offers ARE mostly chamber recordings, but it looks like that is his main horn and so it probably works well enough for him, even if he did have to play with much more backup than a few instruments.
As to why there's been less discussion, I have no idea. Except that maybe there are newer instruments out on the market being 'discovered' that have pushed the Rossi's out of our mind for the time being (Forte, Buffet Greenline, Buffet Tosca, Amatis, etc. etc.) That's the only explanation I can think of . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: frank
Date: 2004-12-26 19:44
The Rossi's are definitely a different animal as oppsed to the standard French clarinets of Buffet, Yamaha, Selmer, Leblanc. Even the Rossi French and American bore clarinets feel different than other makes. This may have to do with the fact that Luis Rossi is an English school trained player. His tonal concept and ultimate clarinet design is with his background in mind. Luis has a great sound too, but it is very English-ish. It isn't so honky though. I had the pleasure of taking a lesson with him once and being in some masterclasses with him. He is a wonderful man and a superb musician. His clarinets reflect his nature I feel. They are sweet and refined. Rossi clarinets are very pretty and play with a unique characteristic. I would base my purchase more on what sort of playing I did most when buying new horns. There is a lot of professional discrimination when it comes to the equipment you use. Plus, it may be easier to blend with others using similar equipment. These are valid issues when choosing the right clarinets to perform on.
I have not tried the new Chadash clarinets, but I hear they are awesome. According to Guy Chadash with whom I spoke, he said his clarinets are more suited to the American school. In other words, people who grew up on French clarinets like Buffet R13's. Thats who Guy markets his clarinets to. Guy also agreed that the Rossi clarinet is geared toward the soloist and euro market, as oppsed to American orchestral players. A friend of mine is ordering a Chadash clarinet and I can't wait to try it. His opinion about the Chadash clarinet after trying it was sheer amazement and that it made the R13 feel like an unfinished instrument. I believe the Chadash clarinet is about $5,000, which makes it about a grand more than the Rossi. Who knows, I may buy a Chadash!
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-12-27 00:21
If they cost less money, more players would "dabble"...
It's like the Reform Boehm horns from Wurlitzer - beautifully made, great tuning, wonderful sound and cost more than my last THREE cars, altogether.
We should be glad we're not playing the Bassoon, or English horn I suppose.
Me, I would sooner buy a second hand Boosey 1010 set - most of those have already had tuning adjustments over the years.
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Author: jack
Date: 2004-12-27 22:26
It's unlikely that you will hear a lot about Rossi's simply because they make a maximum of 5 clarinets a month, and what with holidays - probably less than 60 a year, according to Mr. Rossi. He isn't gonna do a lot of advertising.
I own a french bore Rossi in cocobollo wood. (Cocobollo is not currently available because they can't get suitable raw material). Everything about it is impeccable. Out of the box all the pads sealed perfectly. I doubt you could say that about any other brand. All other adjustments, fittings, etc., were done perfectly. The mechanism is superior, imo, to all others. The feel is one of suppleness, rather than a mechanical feel. Adjusting screws abound, for instance on the four keys operated by the right little finger, although, I must admit that I have never had to adjust anything. When I play solo, I invariably get complements on the "beautiful ringing" tone.
A "Brannenized" R-13 would be the closest thing to a Rossi. But I still think that Rossi has taken the state of the art to a higher level due to the innovations in the mechanism and the artfullness of the construction.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Jack
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2005-01-02 12:40
When I bought my A/B-flat set of Rossi American bore clarinets a year ago,I found it sounds far smoother than my 10SII but at the same time too much with my Greg Smith,i.e. it nearly squeaked.
To tame this and I do not like to use thicker reeds, I looked for a better matching mouthpiece and found one made by Alexander Willscher,Hermann Uhi,Martin Spangenberg. Both mouthpiece and clarinets seem to have same tendency, eveness and smoothness of tone emission over the full range.
Rossi's mechanism is far better than the clarinets I have played, three Buffets and one Selmer.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-02 15:51
Hiroshi,
Do you find that the Rossi american bore blends in well with the traditional R13? So that you won't be a 'soloist' above the rest with a drastically different sound?
I ask this because many of the people listed on Rossi's site as players of his instruments are soloists (in which case blending with other clarinets is not always necessary/desireable) or chamber musicians. Sure he may have just listed them as players to draw more of a crowd to his clarinets (as anyone would/should do), but I don't personally know of any wind ensemble players that play them (or any other place where there's more than one clarinet per part and so they need to SOUND as one).
I'm also not familiar with what ensemble in which you yourself play and therefore don't know if you even need to blend with other clarinets playing the same part, or if you're an orchestral type player where most of the time it is you and you alone playing that line.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2005-01-02 15:56)
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Author: clancy
Date: 2005-01-02 22:24
I have tried Mr. Rossi's intruments and think they are great. The sound quality, tuning, and flexibility are remarkable. It could be the high price that scares some people away from the Rossi clarinets, but I think it might have more to do with how the American clarinet world works. First off, most American clarinet players are ensemble people, orchestra, band, etc; very few actually specialize in solo performance. In these realms of playing Buffet has been king for years and years, only now giving way slightly to Selmer, Leblanc, Yamaha, etc. Many people want to preserve the traditional clarinet style and ideas of years ago and are unwilling to change to anything different. Consequently many of them teach their students to play on what is the mainstream and not to stray off the path. This to me is silly, because I have heard clarinet sections all playing the same brand of horns and mouthpieces and sounding totally different from one another. On the other side, look at the Chicago Symphony, they all use different horns and blend very well. I also disagree with Mr. Chadash's ideas about how Rossi's are made for the euro market and we should stay away from them. In doing this and preaching to youngsters that these instruments (and other makers from my experience with him) are wrong and incorrect, he is causing more inbred, close minded thoughts and ideas.
I think we should stop paying attention to brands and experiment with whats out there, there are a ton of clarinet makers on the market that produce VERY good instruments. In the end, you will sound like you no matter what, the instrument just helps you get there- find one that gets you there the easiest.
Post Edited (2005-01-02 22:26)
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Author: frank
Date: 2005-01-03 02:09
I'd like to add some more notes on my experience with the Rossi clarinets. When I recieved it from WW&BW, it was in bad shape. Since I do my own repairs, that was fine. The keywork wasn't fitted properly. There was a lot of slop and play in the action, sticky pads, etc. Craftsmanship was excellent design wise. I didn't sweat the poor shape of the instrument. I figured that when it was made in Argentina, the climate was different, hence the sloppiness in the keys. Overall though, diregarding the above, the keywork is not as solid as I would like. Buffet keywork feels far more comfotable under my hands, and it is noticibly smaller than the Rossi in it's layout. I do prefer the Rossi register key though. It is shaped to match the thumb tube and it is more ergonomic than the standard register key. Other than that, the Rossi tends to feel a tad clunky to me. Some notes on the Rossi are out of tune and/or different tambor, but no clarinet is perfect. It took me a bit of time to adjust to the quirks to the Rossi.
Soundwise, the Rossi has a different tonal shape and blows differently than the standard R13, Concerto, etc. I consider the Rossi a seperate entity and try not to compare it to my R13 in regards to being "better" or "worse". The Rossi is simply... different! Volume and flexibility on the Rossi French bore I own is not very large, which can be detrimental to certain types of playing. It is far easier to blend with others who use similar equipment in the physical and psychological sense. If you doubt that, try it! I've noticed quite a bit of bias towards the rosewood Rossi as well. Some players are quite rigid in their tastes. All in all, it's best to play on what you feel most comfortable with. NEVER buy a clarinet because it looks cool!
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2005-01-03 11:01
I also find that the register mechanism works very well on mine. The only issue I have is the tuning above clarion C.
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Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2005-01-07 22:12
Love mine...a lot. I have the biggest bore rosewood. And a grenadilla. Like the rosewood more, but prefer the wooden thumb rest on the grenadilla more. Key work is fabulous on both, although they are different. I won't play any other instruments but these.
Jean
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Author: jack
Date: 2005-01-08 00:35
Reply to Frank,
Had your Rossi been through a train wreck? If it was so bad why did you keep it? Was it new or used? I tried a couple of Rossi's at WWBW before purchasing mine from another dealer while at the New Orleans Fest four or five years ago and they were in fine condition. I have to say that I am bemused by hearing the "keywork was not fitted properly - with slop and play, seriously now... Or maybe you didn't realize those "Argentina" Rossi's are just as counterfit as the tale you told. Seriously, check out where they are actually crafted to make the diatrabe more authentic.
Jack
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Author: frank
Date: 2005-01-08 06:16
Jack,
As I stated, the craftsmanship was excellent. I got the clarinet new. The only issue was the keys binding and/or play in the keys due to wood shrinkage and a couple sticky pads. That was what I was referring to. It would not have been worth my time to send it back to WW&BW to repair that, especially since removing play and freeing up keys is not a difficult task if you know how to do it. I loved the sound and feel of the Rossi I got, so why return it? I was also waiting for Rossi to finish the clarinet after I bought it. At the time I ordered it from WW&BW, they had no French bore rosewood models in stock. And I did make a mistake in my post For some reason I said the clarinets were made in Argentina, not Chile. I spaced on that one, so substitute CHILE for ARGENTINA in my above post. Pretty funny considering I've actually written to Rossi's address! Darn human traits of imperfection! lol
It would be truthful to say that clarinets are affected by climates, wouldn't you agree? That was my point regarding the clarinet being properly adjusted when it left Rossi's factory but after shipping, it changed a bit. I know Luis Rossi personally and he does a wonderful job on all his clarinets. He takes great pride in his work and wouldn't purposely ship an out of adjustment clarinet. You apparently missed my point all together about my post. Where did I mention anything in my post being "counterfit" due to it being from Argentina, Chile, or otherwise? Just because you tried a clarinet or two in New Orleans, it doesn't automatically make every horn of the same make "fine" like the ones you tried. No need to get hot under the collar... blame mother nature! A more outlandish and counterfeit statement I believe would be: "A "Brannenized" R-13 would be the closest thing to a Rossi." 'Nuff said.
Some people love to dig real deep to try and find an argument. wow!!!!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-10-01 12:51
WWBW did a few years back, but no longer carry them. I bought a "Used A stock" from them, but had to return it due to intonation issues. Even so, they were selling new models at that time.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: clarinetistra
Date: 2010-10-02 17:02
I've had a French bore rosewood Bb and a cocobolo A for about 11 years now- love the smooth sound of them, and the A is hands down the best blowing A I've ever played. Yes, keywork feels very different than a Buffet, but that's just spending a couple weeks playing it so your fingers start feeling at home, I never considered that to be an issue.
Luis is a sweet man as well- I met him at a workshop about a year after buying my set (directly from him, thru his website) and he remarked that he remembered making my Bb, that it's low E was so well in tune.... I bet the head techs at the Buffet factory (no offense to them at all) could remember specifics about a particular horn they'd made a year before....
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2010-10-02 19:42
A few notes:
- The price of a Bb Rossi is around $500 less than that of a Buffet Tosca or Leblanc Legacy, and nearly $700 less for the A models.
- Rossi clarinets are largely handmade instruments, and made to order, not mass produced. Consequently, it might take up to a year before Luis can fulfil an order, and most people aren't willing to wait that long.
- Because they're made to order, a buyer has to trust that he or she will get a fine clarinet, and can't pick and choose between several examples.
- WWBW no longer sells Rossi clarinets because, during their shake up a few years back, Luis was never paid for the instruments he sold through them.
- Luis has had offers to "expand," but has refused, even though he'd make a lot more money. He cares about making fine clarinets more than he does about money, so any comparison between how the Big Four do business and the way he does it is like comparing kiwi fruit to pomegranates.
- Like any other maker of any product, sometimes things go wrong. However, in my case, when the wrong solder was mistakenly used on a key my first Rossi clarinet, Luis sent me to a top-notch technician (Tim Clark), and paid for the repair, in addition to apologizing profusely for the inconvenience.
- A Rossi is not an R13, it's a Rossi. Everyone who I've talked to who "doesn't like Rossis" usually turns out not to like them because they've played one for five minutes and they're not what they're used to. And yes, as mentioned above, it takes some time to learn how to play a Rossi clarinet the way it wants to be played. The instrument is voiced differently, and the key feel is different.
- Rossi provides many more options than the Big Four, and at a REASONABLE price. What other maker offers two different configurations of throat Bb mechanisms, auxiliary LH Eb/G# key, raised L3 tone hole, and articulated G#, plus several different bore options in a clarinet so comparatively inexpensive?
B. (who has no business relationship with Luis, though I do sell his mouthpieces for him, taking no profit)
Post Edited (2010-10-03 05:39)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-10-03 05:28
The claim that Rossis are more for chamber groups and not for orchestras seems strange to me. Most (or maybe all) players of the Israeli Philhamonic orchestra here recently changed from Buffet to Rossi.
>> Everyone who I've talked to who "doesn't like Rossis" usually turns out not to like them because they've played one for five minutes and they're not what they're used to. <<
Maybe, but it's also possible to like a very different clarient imediately. That is what happened to me with the clarient I play, which is very different from the Buffet I used to play before. I did need to get used to it a little but I imediately knew I liked it. That didn't happen with a Rossi, though objectively I did think it was excellent too.
BTW when I briefly checked a couple of Rossi clarinets recently I was surprised by a lot of free play on some keys for a very new clarinet (only a few months), also messing with adjustment of the bridge. Seeing from the above post Rossi allowed a local warrenty repair I will suggest that to the player.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-10-03 12:48
[Quote]BTW when I briefly checked a couple of Rossi clarinets recently I was surprised by a lot of free play on some keys for a very new clarinet (only a few months), also messing with adjustment of the bridge.
I think this may be more common to clarinets in general than to Rossis or another brand. I think that with extended play, over a few months, an adjustment should be made to any clarinet. Much like the short breaking period on a car, motorcycle, bycicle, etc. A quick TuneUp after it's been broken in will serve to tighten up any loose keys it posts that arise from it being used from the first time since it was assembled.
Alexi
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-10-03 13:15
Maybe I need to clarify. I see how much free play there is on a lot of new clarinets and also on many clarinets with various amount of playing. The free I was talking about was as if the clarinet was played extensively for a few years at least and even that is boarderline. The player even said he had the problem from new but it got even worse.
>> A quick TuneUp after it's been broken in will serve to tighten up any loose keys it posts that arise from it being used from the first time since it was assembled. <<
Sorry that doesn't make sense. If I tightened that key now, it would take a long time before it got loose at all, not to mentioned as loose as it was. If it was made tight when new, same thing.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-10-03 14:35
I don't know. It's probably a personal and subjective idea, but I feel that most anything that has moving parts should be looked at and possibly adjusted after a period of use. My motorcycle had some loose nuts and bolts after 600 miles, Things loosen up from factory spec after use. I personally would not be surprised if a brand new instrument loosened up. I'd just adjust it and go on my way.
Alexi
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-10-03 16:09
>> Things loosen up from factory spec after use. <<
Yes but the question is how much. With experience you get to know how much free play is caused by use vs. it was made this way, etc. What you say is true in general but is completely different issue than the specific clarinet I was talking about which had the problem from new.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-10-03 16:47
"At the time I ordered it from WW&BW, they had no French bore rosewood models in stock."
This is a post from 2005 folks! The majority of this thread is almost six years old!
Does anyone know why ordering from Cohler would be preferable than going straight to Rossi himself?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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