 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-12 20:06
Hey you reed-players! I have a problem.
When I buy a box of for example 2.5, there is a RANGE of hardness from 2.25 to 2.75. I do NOT want a RANGE! I want simply MY hardness.
I think that the most problems with reeds are caused by the fact that you simply DO NOT GET WHAT YOU NEED.
What do you think?
I asked some famous french reed producer to make more precisely sorted reeds and to make some survey on their web to find out what other customers think. Nothing happened, of course. Why not to make some on this web (Mark!)?
What steps would you like? 1/4? 1/7? or even 1/10??
Do you want more fine sorted reeds at all?!
(Note: reeds can be sorted by 1/10, it is a fact not my guess)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-11-12 20:10
You can get reeds sorted finer from a number of manufacturers. It hasn't been as big a selling point as you'd imagine, however.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-12 20:14
Well I thought that it would be good to have such reeds generally available, not just as a special product from some small(?) manufacturer.
Post Edited (2004-11-12 20:15)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-12 20:16
The finest I've seen have been Zonda reeds.
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/Reeds/Zonda.html
Three levels of a 3.5 size reed seems almost TOO much of a 'fine assortment'. But if you're looking for a box of something that exact, that's probably where I'd be likely to point you.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
|
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-11-12 20:21
It is a well known fact that different strengths (up to .4 softer and harder) are intentionally put in each box of Vandoren reeds. Thus, a typical box of #3 Vandoren reeds can range from 2.6 to 3.4.
Other manufacturers claim to put only the exact strength in their boxes.
Simple solution: If you are not pleased with the grading of one particular manufacturer - try another brand.
BTW - If your reeds are just slightly too hard - learning to adjust them is a good skill to develop..GBK
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-12 20:23
Three levels of reed sorted by 1/2 matches reeds sorted by 1/7?
I thougt that 1/10 steps would be too fine...
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-12 20:43
GBK: Other manufacturers claim to put only the exact strength in their boxes.
Are they able to produce reeds of exact strenths? WOW!
Or if not, what do they do with that reeds that do not match that exact strenth? Do they throw them away???
|
|
|
|
|
Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-11-12 23:27
How do can they make reeds of an EXACT strength but choose not to? It's it a lot to do with the cane, so you can't really tell how strong it will be unless you've made it and played it? I wouldn't want to buy pre-played reeds! They might already be blown out! :p
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
|
|
|
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-13 00:48
The reed strength is measured at a certain humidity, elevation, basically a different atmosphere. By the time it gets to where YOU are (lets figure Vandoren's coming from France to YOU in Australia), they've crossed all different temperatures, gone from winter to summer, and now instead of playing like 3.5's, maybe they'll have the properties of 3.0's or 4.0's. If they vary their strength, there's more probability that you'll get more working reeds.
Also, reeds change daily (as we all know) due to weather. A GREAT reed one day may not necessarily be our best reed the next. But if we have ALL exact thicknesses, then most of the reeds might go from sounding great to bad. Then you're screwed. If you have that slight variety of thicknesses, it ups your chances of finding that "perfect" reed when you really need it. No matter WHAT the weather.
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/Reeds/Consistency.html
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
|
|
|
Author: CPW
Date: 2004-11-13 02:16
You will find that today's perfect reed might be slightly too hard or too soft tomorrow.....humidity/temp/air pressure etc.....so there is a bell shaped curve built into the package.
GBK offers good advice about fixing them for balance and strength.
Voicing is a skill learned later.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-11-13 04:49
It makes a lot of sense to do what Vandoren does and put different strengths in each box. If they only put exact 3s (lets say it's possible) then a lot of players who need 2.8 for example would need to work on EVERY reed. The way they do it make a box of 3s fit a lot more players.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Contra
Date: 2004-11-13 06:07
Besides, where's the fun in having every reed the same?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-13 07:02
Clarnibass: The idea is that if you need 2.8 you will be able to buy 2.8! Of course you will have to work on some reeds, but on say TWO instead
of SEVEN of EIGHT when you are FORCED to buy 3.0!
About that changes in weather. I believe the most of time you need one strenths, just occasionally another... Why not fo figure out what strenth you need and then buy some reeds of that strenth? Now you have to find by trial and error method which reed suits your need.
CPW: I am afraid that you do not have a bell shaped curve built into the package! I think that there is a constant distribution of reed strenths there. If you buy 2.5 that does not mean that the majority of reeds will be of that strenth! I guess two or three will be close to that strenth (or to the strenth you really need). Others will be too far and you will have to work on them to get them to what you need.
It there was a bell shaped curve and you would need some border value, you would find yourself in hopeless situation when just one or no reed at all would match your need. This would be even stronger argument for more fine sorting.
Post Edited (2004-11-13 07:23)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2004-11-13 11:38
If a variation of +/- a quarter strength causes you problems, then you have a serious problem not the reed. A quater strength is barely noticeable most of the time.
If you notice a variation of +/- 0.1, then how do you play at all? The reed changes that much daily due to weather variations. It will change that much as it gets broken in. It will change more than that as it ages. You'll need a new reed almost daily if you are that sensitive and that will get expensive.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-13 12:21
Just learn how to adjust your reeds and the problems won't be problems at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-13 12:51
Well, if you can play on reeds with such variation and that causes you no problems, then you are genius. Or you are normal and I am stupid.
Such variations require changes in your embouchure etc.
I think it is generally better to learn one very well for some reed strenth and then search for reeds that match what you can do well.
If you let rule yourself by the reeds and adapt to the reed each time you have a new one... Frankly, I think YOU have a problem.
Of course the reed strenth changes during its life.
But the major change is during breaking in and then it changes slowly.
(Does anyone have some graph of strenth measured during a reed life???)
I also think that I could not distinguish between 2.6 and 2.7. I never said such fine sorting in necessary!
I just think that sort it by 0.5 is too ROUGH! Legeres are sorted by 0.25 and nobody complaints.
Why do reeds change due to weather? They cannot be affected by humidity, cause it is 100% while in use. The only idea I have is that it contains small sealed volumes of air and when the air pressure goes down the reed goes stiffer. (?)
When transported in airplain the pressure can go so low that some of these small microaircompartments can break and this way the reeds can change.
I do not know what is air pressure in cargo place in airplane.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-13 13:10
I'll say it again, just learn how to adjust reeds better and the hardness won't be such a factor. I'm not busting on you, I'm just stating that the better you are at reed adjusting, the less reed issues you will have.
There are 2 amazing reed systems out there - the ATG by Ridenour and the ReedWizard by Armato
Either can make reed life much, much easier.
btw - the air density is what matters.
Post Edited (2004-11-13 13:20)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-13 13:18
Blumby,
I will give you example: If I need 2.7 why to buy 3.0 and adjust eight reeds, when I could buy 2.75 and adjust one or two??? Tell me.
Post Edited (2004-11-13 20:03)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-13 13:45
Stepan - I adjust all 10 (that is only if they have good enough cane to produce a good sound)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-13 14:41
OK, and do you adjust all the same way, or are there two or three that need just small adjustment?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-13 15:40
I adjust all the same way with some having more, some less - same technique though. A harder reed takes all of about 20 more seconds.
I do understand what you are asking for. Probably it would cost the reed company a lot more to do that and that's why they don't.
Imagine if they graded the reeds in 1/10 strengths and you could buy a box of 3.7 or 3.8 instead of 3.5 or 4
Would be nice, but wouldn't happen. Imagine the local guy still only carrying the 2.0, 2.5 and 3 strength with a lone box of 5.0 sitting for years untouched.
Post Edited (2004-11-13 21:50)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-13 15:57
You must be skillfull adjuster!
You are not the right person for my plan. You are destroying it.
Please be quiet.
Anyone else???
Do not tell me that I am the only one who would like more fine (can I say finer?) sorted reeds???
Has anyone experience with Gaia select? I found that these are available here
where I live...
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-11-13 16:07
Stepan wrote:
> Do not tell me that I am the only one who would like more fine
> (can I say finer?) sorted reeds???
The commercial world works on the supply/demand concept. In the case of finer gradations, the demand is low, so the supply is low. You'll have a much smaller selection of merchants to deal with.
Some merchants (Zonda is one) started out with finest gradations possible, and the concept did not sell. They went to a somewhat less selective method after their initial trials.
Not only must people want a finer selection, they must be willing to pay for that finer selection. In almost all cases the merchants have found an unwillingness to pay - there are significant costs in selection, wastage, overruns, and packaging of very fine gradations. A significant price penalty is to be expected.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-13 16:18
That is why I wanted Vandoren to produce them, they produce so many reeds that some additional cost of developing and employing new automated sorting system could be easily dissolved, and the final cost of such reeds would not have to be much more higher.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-11-13 16:20
Stepan wrote:
> That is why I wanted Vandoren to produce them ...
Not going to happen. Move on...
BTW - Many of us even remember when Vandorens came in boxes of 25 and that a box of "Medium" was labelled "2-1/2 to 3," and a box of "Medium-Strong" was labelled "3-1/2 to 4." ...GBK
|
|
|
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
