 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-09-17 00:15
Yes, I AM talking about alto clarinet.
At my school we have a strong focus on chamber music, and every year the clarinet studio assembles a clarinet quartet to perform for a concert. This year we chose to do Françaix's Petit Quatour, and so I get to play the bassett horn part tranposed on alto clarinet. Having never picked up an alto clarinet before, I've had quite a time of adjusting. I am learning to relax my embouchure and take in more mouthpiece and all that stuff, but does anyone have suggestions that will help me be able to pull off this great chamber piece?
The one I'm talkning about is on the Blues for Sabine CD.
Bradley
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-09-17 01:32
It's a pretty good Leblanc wooden one from the 80s I believe.
Bradley
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-09-17 01:54
...for good harmony clarinet playing is to ensure that you have a solid, leak-free instrument. If at all humanly possible, get an instrument assigned to you and you alone, then spend the money (yours if necessary) to get it properly set up (particularly the saucer-like lower joint pads). Then, keep it in your control and away from the hands of others (take it home at night, in other words), and handle it like it was made of eggshells.
I've taught about thirty clarinet students over the year, and many of those were high schoolers who had been transferred over to the harmony horns. There's nothing more frustrating for a serious student than to play on a "common" school horn, one shared by three or four students. When they get to use your instrument, which is treated the right way, and they can now run up and down the range without squeaks and chirps, it's like watching the sun rise. Once that problem is eliminated, the school policy of purchasing your own mouthpiece allows you to take care of the other "problem area" and it's all down hill from there.
(True school instrument "repair" story:
Once, when I was between baritones, I had to borrow a local school's Selmer Mark VI equivalent to do a traveling show. It was a matter of picking the horn up at 4:00 PM, driving seventy odd miles to the theater and performing at 8:00 PM, meal not included.
While at the theater doing the set up work, I gave the bari a quick once over and noticed that it was as bashed up as you would expect a school horn to be. However, one bit of damage that was impossible to work around was the low D hole (covered by the C key, LF RH). This particular tone hole is very exposed to damage, and on the sax in question it (and the surrounding keyguard) were literally mangled. So bad was the damage that the horn would not play low C# and below.
As the show had an extensive section of basement work, low A and its neighbors were essential to the part. No instrument repair kit in sight...what to do?
I am almost ashamed to report that the solution was to pull the key, very carefully reform the tone hole rim with _a pair of Vice Grip pliers_ (shudder) and two pads of paper (to protect the already corrugated tonehole edge , and then wedge the replaced key shut during the bass line section with a cut up champagne cork (courtesy of a Conn sax player who kept a couple of spares in his case).
Crude, perhaps brutal, but it worked. Some measure of the original damage can be made when you consider that the "repair" was close enough to work without the cork, once a real repairman got to leveling the key to hole interface the next day.
School horns...what are you gonna do???)
Anyway...
For those bass clarinet students who were really dedicated, I always tried to pull the parents in the direction of buying their own "student grade" horn, mostly for the avoidance of the frustration that comes with horn sharing. It's a bit more of a financial commitment than a student Bb, but parents who saw the potential revealed when their child was able to achieve far more on a well set up horn were usually willing to do so.
Of course, we all know that the alto clarinet is a tool of Satan, etc. But the same principles still obtain. I hope it's not one with open tone holes; one of our districts was still using such a horn back in the 1970's, and they never could find a kid able to seal things up right...
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-09-17 02:19
Terry, what brand/model of bass do you point students to, providing you can convince their parents to buy one?
thx.
-Paul
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-09-17 02:32
Lol.....
It's closed hole alright. The thing is, we pretty much despise it and don't use it in wind ensemble, so although it's signed out to me and only me for a year, I am only using it for the quartet- I already have to juggle Bb and Eb. For that reason, I don't plan on spending any money on it.
Bradley
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Author: ken
Date: 2004-09-17 03:54
Even a good quality and serviceable alto clarinet (there is such a thing?) will only allow you to play it, but never really take command over it. Yes, even for a fine player can find the horn suddenly and rudely bark at them for no apparent reason .... it likes to remind you who is in charge.
There are teachers on the bboard who will vehemently disagree with me. However, given the temporary performing scenerio (and it appears you're not exactly taking a shine to the alto) you could as a quick, steady down fix tighten the neck strap as much as you can stand (maintaining an open-steady air stream) increasing the mpc angle, sit perfectly straight up with good posture and play the instrument between your legs. This will slightly reduce the extraneous movement from playing off to the side, give you a regular soprano horn feel and positively reinforce your embouchure set. Worth a try at this point, why be miserable when you can be more comfortable and afford yourself every fighting chance. v/r Ken
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-09-17 06:40
I've mentioned this before but I'll risk a boring repeat. I'm a happy player of a Bundy (plastic) open hole alto clarinet. I don't use a neckstrap, just play the thing like a regular clarinet. A Bundy mouthpiece and a #2 Rico reed and I'm ready to go 
A "fighting chance" to enjoy playing the alto clarinet? Well, hmmm -- okay -- I don't see it quite that way. The "trick", in my estimation, if there is one, is to not take yourself too seriously. Relax. A mindset of having fun making music is all the motivation one needs to try to play the best we can every time we get it on, whatever your instrument happens to be. I don't understand the negatives some people express, even in jest, about the alto clarinet and I don't vehemently disagree with anyone about the matter. You either like something or you don't. I'm not on an alto clarinet promotional campaign, I just enjoy playing it. No one has yet asked me not to....
- ron b -
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-17 07:59
Here's a harmony clarinet repair story to make your toes curl:
I am continually amazed at local high schools which have multiple Selmer and Buffet pro model bass clarinets. At one school where I taught privately, something hand gotten out of whack in that reciprocating mechanism that regulates the double register vent. A bent rod, I presume.
The student's father removed the rod, and reamed out the holes in the posts and keywork to accept a short length of...<gulp>...COAT HANGAR. Needless to say the register vents seldom coordinated after that. The band director was incensed, but alas it was too late.
The player in question went on to become drum major of the band.
Allen Cole
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-09-17 13:59
Great and plausible alto cl stories, much truth in their conclusions. Being very happy with my older Selmer-Paris Bass [to Eb] AFTER the leaks were found and cured, I investigated some 5-6 altos [still own 2] and came to the conclusion that the smaller bore Selmer-Paris was the best of the lot, tonality and playable-wise, with an old Pedler [with Dbl Reg Keying !!] being nearly as good. After curing leaks, then much practice and accommodation to the diffs. from sop and bass is needed to play satisfactorily. Now having a good bass cl'ist in comm band, to play "my" parts, I'm looking forward to improving my alto skills, hoping for a happy "re-marriage" , being able to repeat previous enjoyable experience in cl choir, playing transposed viola etc parts. Work at it !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-09-17 14:03
Leaks fixed and a good mouthpiece, reed, ligature combination will do wonders for the alto.
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2004-09-17 14:41
One of the clarinet experts of our time, told me that the Alto is the step-child of the clarinet family.
jmsa
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-09-17 14:58
Coming from years of playing bass clarinet, I find alto clarinet to be easy and quite pleasant to play (though I have very few opportunities to do so). My alto is a 1950's-vintage Kohlert-Winnenden, Germany instrument, essentially a miniature carbon copy of my bass clarinet, and it plays very nicely, I think. In contrast, a member of the quartet I play in, who in the past has only played soprano clarinet, is now playing this very instrument in our group and has been struggling with it for more than a month, not having fully adjusted to its feel and timbre. The moral of the story is, it all depends on what you're used to. Alto clarinet need not be the step-child of any family.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-09-17 15:20
Well put, Dave S. As to the [ugly] stepchild characterization, I take some umbrage [sp?], in that its innovation [not "invention" per se] is prob. about the Mozart-Stalder time [better known as the Basset Horn period ??]. Will look in "Clasical Period" , Al Rice ! It's a bit like the chicken/egg question, isn't it? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-09-17 20:01
My inclination was always in the direction of the Selmer USA horn. Cheap enough, well cased to protect against damage, and an instrument with (due to prolonged exposure to the spawn of George Bundy) I was already amply familiar. Of the last three that I talked into purchase of a student level horn, two were Selmer USAs and one was a Yamaha. From what I recall, all had the same basic register key setup, and that's the main "branding" advantage that I see but only in the "pro style" horns.
(I positively hated the pro-level LeBlancs that I've played in the past. I am given to understand that their top end horns now use a standard double register key instead of the "two holes on the body" blasphemy that was once the rule. Whoever came up with _that_ design for a "professional" instrument ought to be drawn and quartered...or, worse yet, be forced to play the alto clarinet for the rest of their life. True, there was a nifty "fork" Eb/Ab mechanism that helped with the little finger problems (but added far more complexity to the horn than an articulated G# ever would have), but only at the expense of a stuffy break and atrocious throat Bb.
To be frank, at that level the style and structure of the horn isn't half as important as the fact that it's one that is kept sealed up. Get them used to how a properly set up horn works, then move them on to the expensive stuff if they are going on to college (or start to work pro).
Some of the band bass clarinets to which I have been exposed over the years were complete wrecks, yet you can hardly blame the directors for not wanting to keep them in repair. A good knock to any of the large keys on any clarinet or sax can lead to Squeakytown, and with a large clarinet (where working over the break involves the lowest tone holes on the horn, unlike on a sax) it doesn't take much. Multiply that by six or eight alto and bass clarinets, a bassoon or two and a baritone saxophone, and you're looking at a busted repair budget.
But, keep them sealed up (by keeping them in the hands of one player and one player alone) and your budding bass clarinet player will soon be able to negotiate soprano clarinet literature with facility and ease.
And, despite my bias against the alto clarinet, I have to shamefully admit that the first monetary compensation I was ever given was for performing on same. The Selmer Company put together a clarinet choir for a band director's meeting back in the early 1960's, and I and my friend Lynn Biggings were tapped at the last minute to fill the two alto clarinet positions.
We each got a double sawbuck for our trouble, the opportunity to play on top of the line Selmer instruments (that were correctly regulated, by the way) plus we got to keep the mouthpiece and ligature we were using...not bad for the time and place. All that and a rubber chicken meal, all for playing some pseudo viola parts in a couple of transcriptions plus some concert band fluff with a name like "Blaze of Glory".
(The two bass holes in the group were filled by a couple of handless hacks from some school in North Saint Louis County. It was embarrassing to hear them squeak their way through the music, but what can you do? In addition to the above compensation, I also managed to "score" three bass clarinet mouthpieces in the bargain, thanks to a clinician who was impressed by my bass playing skills that he heard later that evening. He also ensured that I got tapped for bass clarinet the next year. (Lynn couldn't make it as by that time she was pregnant, if my memory serves me well.) I still use the D facing mouthpiece he gave me for jazz purposes to this very day...a rare mouthpiece in the world of C* and C**s.)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-09-17 22:49
What a great story, Terry, several happy endings ! Yes, my Sel D-faced alto sax mp is my favorite. Keep on a toot, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2004-09-18 02:55
I played alto clarinet a bit in high school, and a few months ago, I picked up a mid-1970's vintage Selmer Series 22 alto clarinet in beautiful shape on that internet auction site for around $450. The previous owner had added a peg and a curled thumb rest which made it much more comfortable, IMO, to play. I spent an additional hundred bucks having it tweaked by my local repair person, and it's a very enjoyable instrument. Certainly, compared to bass clarinets, some fantastic deals can be had on excellent alto clarinets (especially in the early months of summer right after school lets out, and before people start thinking about buying instruments for the start of the next school year).
I'm quite careful about the way I assemble it so that nothing is bent, and it seems to be holding up very well. I can imagine that any of the large, five piece clarinets would be a maintenance nightmare if used by younger players. When I remember back to school days, I recall instruments precariously balanced on or leaned up against chairs. I wonder if an investment in stands for all instruments would help.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-12-13 05:15
i started playing alto clarinet for the first time this summer in community band. i have owned a 50 year old bundy for 30 years but never played it . the thought of showing up playing a bundy embarrased me so i bought a mint condition noblet for only 350 in perfect playing condition. i have completly mastered the bundy after a few months and strangely its the noblet thats giving me the occasional squawks and voicing issues. its leak free according to the leak light . i guess i just need more time on it. i am so confident on the bundy that its all i take to practice and concerts now. a truly exceptional vandy b44 mpc has transformed the bundy into a perfectly acceptable instrument.
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2021-12-13 07:22
Alto clarinet was the first clarinet I learnt on - after seeing a brand-new Selmer Bundy on sale at the local music, I decided to buy it as my second instrument.
At the time, back around 1998 or 1999, I was playing oboe, but wanted something different and lower timbre and honestly had never heard of or seen the instrument before. I knew I'd never get my hands on an English horn or farting bedpost (bassoon - which I had tried once for a week in the late 1980s), so I thought 'why not?' and it made me fall in love with clarinets.
Still have my horn, got him all fixed up and repadded 2 years ago after being in storage for around 10, and he got me started playing music again during the pandemic (moving from a tiny apartment with paper walls to our own house, also helped). I perhaps don't play him as much as my bass clarinet or other instruments (been taking out the oboe more lately), but whenever I do play the alto, it really feels the most comfortable and at-ease clarinet for me, like I am at music home again.
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2021-12-13 07:50
super20dan wrote:
> its leak free according to the leak light .
My own experience is that a leak light won't show up a small leak in hard to see places, and in a normally lighted room small leaks will also be hard to see. I've had techs tell me there were no leaks using a leak light, but the instrument (saxes, my bass clarinet) still felt stuffy in places. Checking with a feeler got much better results. If you can get a rubber stopper large enough to close one end of each section, you can do a suction test, but I wouldn't write off the possibility of multiple small leaks, enough to affect the instrument's response, without checking around each pad with a feeler (a piece of cigarette paper or something similar in thickness).
Karl
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-12-13 08:23
yes i agree it should play better than it does . further investigation is needed.
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2021-12-15 05:07
I too love my Selmer alto. It has a lovely sound and I find it a very 'zen' playing experience. It tunes well (it had a bit of modification on the bell done at the factory by the original owner) and I have gotten used to the key layout which required some work but was not anything major finally. I have had no problems with it being finicky or unreliable, using a B40 mp and Legere bass reed (reduced in width).
I've decided it's close enough in sound character to the Bb clarinets for me to sit with them playing the alto part and to play a transposed/adapted 2nd or 3rd Bb part if there is no alto part available (but for the moment most of our nicer pieces have one, like the overture to La clemenza di Tito).
And for just noodling around at home, I can't think of a nicer instrument for playing tunes like Stella By Starlight or Sofisticated Lady or bossas. I'm thoroughly enjoying myself and am glad I was able to follow my hunch about the character and versatility of this instrument and get a nice recent used one.
The only thing that might cause the alto to be considered 'untouchable' also applies to bass clarinets and bassets : the price of a new instrument! While it can be argued that the basset has a lovelier sound, not only is it way out of my price range as an amateur musicien, it is also very rare and would not really fit in with the concert band I now play with, covid having played havoc with the other local clarinet ensembles for the moment.
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