 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2004-05-31 21:19
I am planning on majoring in music ed. I want to teach in the public school system. Are there any colleges that are considered the "best" teaching schools, specifically in music? I want to go to a good school, and get a really good education. Does anyone have any opinions on a specific school or know of one with an exceptional reputation for music ed? Thank you.
~Nicki
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-05-31 22:00
Crane School of Music (State Univ of NY at Potsdam).
For those that do not know, in 1886, the Crane Institute of Music initiated the first program in the nation to prepare music teachers for the public schools.
I think that for music education, it is important to find a school that has high standards of excellence and is also keenly aware of what is current in music education.
If your interest is also in performance (as mine was), see how much orchestral playing you will really get to do. At Crane I played a tremendous amount of orchestral repertoire (as well as chamber music) in those 4 years, which has paid huge dividends professionally...GBK (Class of '71)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-05-31 22:11
Hi Nicki,
I seem to recall from some earlier postings that you are from somewherer in the Midwest, right? If so, any of the larger as well as older state universities in most states have very good music education. Many of the ones that I will mention were originally what was called a normal school and specialized in teacher training. That tradition continues and music education is no exception.
I got a my BSEd. in Music Ed. from Ohio University and advaced degrees from Kent State and BGSU. All of these schools have excellent music education programs. The Ohio State University, Akron, Youngstown, and Miami of Ohio are all good as well. All have excellent performing groups as a bonus; in many cases, there are multiple choices in each area.
In the Hoosier state, Indiana U, Ball State, Indiana State, and others are very similar; just pick the size school you feel most comfortable in. In Illinois, U of I, Southern Illinois, and N. Illinois should provide like opportunities.
I know there are many schools that I have missed here and there is no intent to dismiss any other fine institutions as not acceptable. I just happen to know more about the particular schools I have mentioned.
Music education with good solid musical performance ensembles coupled with thorough grounding on a major instrument is what these schools offer. I have heard that there might be an acceptable school or two even in the state of Michigan (go Bucks!).
http://tbdbitl.osu.edu/media/audio/across_the_field.mp3
HRL
Post Edited (2005-04-26 17:31)
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Author: William
Date: 2004-06-01 15:33
University of Wisconsin--Eau Claire campus. Good jazz ensemble as well.
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2004-06-01 19:04
I've been looking at U of I and Northwestern so far. (I'm from Illinois) I'm a little hesitant about going to a large University. I'm from a VERY small school. (Pre-K through 12th in the same building) and there are only 42 people in my graduating class. I also live in a small town (pop. 500), so a large city kind of scares me truthfully. However, I don't want to sacrifice opportunity for comfort. I'm afraid I will give up some of my education if I settle for a small school.
~Nicki
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Author: brez
Date: 2004-06-01 19:20
Hi!
Good luck with your research, but just for a little tidbit...
I'm from Wisconsin, and I can't tell how insane the difference of education is between WI and IL... What you might want to checkout in your research is the number of states you are eligible to teach in with your certification from the state in which you graduate. Nothing against any state, but it's common knowledge, where I'm from, that Wisconsin has one of the highest standards in all categories of ed., and certification in the state has one of the highest numbers of placement, and you also have more to choose from. I think it's somewhere pretty close to being able to teach in almost all 50 states, other states where you receive certification might only be 5 or 10, which means finding a job is harder, and if you want to make it easier, that means more college.
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-06-01 20:01
I think it's interesting that many view Music Ed. as the fallback to Performance Study (or at a minimum, co-existence).
NOW, we see more & more being cut out of School & University Budgets. Will there be a time when Music Ed. will not be a fallback as there will be no Music Programs in the public schools etc.
... I hope not (yet it has to occur to many).
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-06-02 03:37
It takes a far braver soul than mine to contemplate teenagers as your vocational partners.
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Author: GJC
Date: 2004-06-02 04:15
Out of curiosity, where in Illinois?
I don't have any perspective or information on the best music education schools, so this may seem somewhat off-topic, but as a reminder to those looking at different schools --
As long as you remember to do your homework on different institutions, you'll be fine. If you're uncomfortable with the idea of a larger institution, some sort of visit or overnight arrangement is in order to try to get more of a feel for what you are looking for. (This seems kind of obvious, but it's certainly not to be forgotten.)
Schools will be more than happy to send you all kinds of information about their music programs or a particular department. All you have to do is get in touch with them, either through an admissions office or with the music department directly.
In short, get a lot of information, then go with your gut. Simple as that.
Best of luck.
--GJC
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-06-02 13:35
Diz said:
"It takes a far braver soul than mine to contemplate teenagers as your vocational partners."
------------------------------
IME, it takes Courageous Souls to have teenagers as your Children!
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2004-06-02 14:56
GJC,
Right out near Springfield, smack dab in the middle of Cornfields, USA! Ha ha.
Brez,
You know, I really never thought about looking at where I could teach with a degree from a certain state. That is definately something to think about. Thank you.
Mw,
An interesting comment, as that is exactly what many feel I am doing. I had originally planned to go into Performance, but I have discovered my true passion is teaching. Many people I told about my performance dreams are disappointed I have changed my mind. However, I figure I can still perform with an education degree if I want, but I can't very well teach with a performance degree!
~Nicki
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2004-06-02 16:51
Nikki:
You can teach with a performance degree. I am living proof of that. You have to go back and get certified(which I am doing) but nonetheless, you can certainly get a performance degree and teach. Now, you may not get the plush teaching jobs, but how many young teachers are going to get the "great" schools anyway.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-06-02 19:29
Nikki, Northwestern would provide you with a very fine music ed degree, but it is a little like watering a flower with a fire hose -- overkill. If you are looking to teach at the secondary school level, spend more time looking at the other Big 10 schools (Wisconsin, U Mich, Purdue, etc.). All are top-drawer programs that won't require the contribution of major organs and limbs to enroll. That said, none of the Big 10 schools are small. Northwestern is the smallest and still rather large -- my entering class of music majors at NU was well over 100 people.
Best of luck with your search.
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-06-02 20:42
Msloss said:
"... spend more time looking at the other Big 10 schools (Wisconsin, U Mich, Purdue, etc.). All are top-drawer programs that won't require the contribution of major organs and limbs to enroll."
-----------------------------
Incorrect as to University of Michigan. My daughter was accepted there.
U of M has a great fight song & they are one of the most expensive schools in the U.S.A. for anyone who is not a resident of Michigan. Tuition & fees @ Northwestern versus U of M (out of state tuition) is pretty much a dead heat. ($37-40k a year, depending) On an in-state basis, U of M is a gem.
U of M has some great music teachers and some great Faculty in Clarinet & other course areas. Impressive library, great location in a midwestern (at least to me) location.
Unfortunately, U of M had ZIP as far as School of Music Scholarship Money for 2004-2005.
http://www.finaid.umich.edu/Financial_Aid_Basics/cost.asp
Post Edited (2004-06-02 20:49)
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-06-02 23:36
I got my music education degree at George Mason University. I loved it for several reasons:
1. It is not a huge program but I was able to be involved in every ensemble that I wanted to be in (iron man clarinet playing) AND it has a great Wind Symphony under Anthony Maiello.
2. It is rite smack in the middle of Fairfax County, one of the best music education programs in the U.S. (I didn't say THE best but it is at least top 5 IMHO)
+This allows you to get student teaching in some great schools and gets you a good recommendation AND/OR a job in a good county.
3. Really good clarinet studios.
I know there are many great schools out there so I would definately think about going to a school that is close to a good county to student teach in. It makes so much of a difference for education majors
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-06-03 12:31
Well, a $5,000 difference in tuition between Mich and NU is far from a dead heat unless you are George Soros, but I will concede that Mich is still pretty darned expensive. Congratulations (or condolences) on your daughter's acceptance. I hear Ann Arbor has very nice banks to rob.
Purdue does not have a music program of the same breadth or scope as the other Big 10 schools (it is a division of their Liberal Arts College), but they do have a very well respected program specifically structured around music methods in elementary education. Ms. Hanson did say she was specifically interested in public school teaching.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-06-03 14:54
It appears to me that you have the difference in the wrong direction, Mark S. According to their websites:
NU tuition amounts to $9,980 per quarter (normally 3-4 courses). Since an academic year for a quarter school is typically 3 quarters (summer excluded), that amounts to $29,940 per normal academic year.
UM out-of-state tuition is $35,766 per academic year for lower division students (freshman/sophomore) and a couple of thousand per year higher for upper division students.
By comparison, Michigan State, Iowa and Ohio State out-of-state tuition runs around $15,000-$17,000 per year (30 hours, lower division), compared to around $6,000 for in-state. Illinois checks in around $8,000 in-state and $21,000 out-of-state.
I haven't checked the others but I think you will generally find that out-of-state tuition at the Big 10 state schools runs from around 2.5 to 3 times in-state-tuition.
The moral is that, if you live in a state that has a good academic state university (IMO, I don't ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif) ), it is an educational bargain (hey, you've been paying for it with your tax dollars). Out-of-state tuition at such schools may still be a bargain compared to some good private schools but perhaps not the bargain it used to be.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2004-06-03 14:57)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-06-03 16:11
JK,
As a graduate of three state universities in Ohio, your answer is right on track. But then, you are in the business also so you know the ropes.
Not only was my education a financial bargain but I was close to home/work when doing the advanced degrees. The faculty was well qualified, the musical offerings were top notch, and there was always an active social and arts life on campus as well.
Sure, there may be a specific professor that one would like to study with at a specific school but the price can be steep with private or out-of-state tuition.
IMHO I believe Ms. Hanson can find what she wants in her home state.
HRL
PS I have a brilliant niece who wants to go to U. of M (just 50 miles north from where I am located) but with the $35K tuition. she will probably be at BGSU, 20 miles south in the same county. As a bonus, her father is a staff member and she will get free tuition and probably several scholarships.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-06-03 18:15
Jack, non-res Frosh tuition at UM is $25,762. Still not cheap by any standard.
I guess I started this by pointing out how expensive NU is. Let us just close it by saying that $25 - 30K/yr. tuition plus living expenses is enough to put an aspiring public school music teacher in a hole that will take a decade or more out of which to climb (or bankrupt the parents funding it).
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2004-06-03 19:06
My Degree is from Indiana University and I would still highly recommend it. I believe the clarinet/woodwind department is still strong. Portnoy was there when I was and don't really know the professors there now, but as others have said, IU and Ball State in Indiana both have good reputations in that area. Also, University of Michigan would be a great choice.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-06-04 04:39
Yoiks! I need to get my eyes (or my head) examined. Mea culpa. I apologize.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2004-06-04 19:46
You might want to look into Baldwin-Wallace College in Berea, Ohio. A small conservatory in a city with a small-town atmosphere yet close enough to Cleveland to be able to enjoy a big-city library, art museum, and a pretty decent orchestra.
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2004-06-05 01:27
Duquesne University in Pittsburgh, PA is a fantastic Education program. One of the best in the country. Duquesne is a private catholic University. The orchestra usually is pretty decent...we do standard rep, and Sidney Harth is the conductor. I'm predicting it will be weak this next year due to not enough people getting scholarships from some renovations to the builing, leaving funds low, and good players overlooking the school...however, once scholarships are available once again, I guess it would be either this spring semester, or 2005 fall semester, I think the building will be better, and the orchestra will be back up to it's usual standard. Go to www.duq.edu for more information if you want.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-06-05 19:29
Gretchen,
Could you please give us a source/reference for the ranking you are quoting. I'd like to check it out to see where other schools show up.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: growlingbunny910
Date: 2004-06-06 00:05
If you are good enough you can go to the best of the best for music education, The Cleveland Institute of Music......cim.edu
you have to audition, they have a total of 200 students, and they are only taking one new clarinet for fall 2004. They have 8 clarinets in the program.
oh, and it is pricey......in the range of $30,000 if you live on campus.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-06 00:16
Or you can move to Cali for a year or two until you receive residency, then have THEM pay for your tuition. . . .
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-06-06 00:43
growlingbunny910 wrote:
> oh, and it is pricey......in the range of $30,000 if you live
> on campus.
However, scholarship money was relatively easy to come by (at least a few years back) and the cost/yr was significantly less than 30K. The 2 years my kid lived on campus was closer to 16K/yr.
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