 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: charlesmunden
Date: 2004-04-17 03:58
Well, I just attended a live concert from Richard Stoltzman. I attended his masterclass yesterday and was extremely dissapointed, he seemed to be into it, but he had a very hard time explaining things that he meant to people which was an obvious indicator he isnt a big teacher. Well his concert on the first half was the Debussy-Rhapsodie then the Bernstein Sonata then Poulenc Sonata, on the second half was a transcribed Bach piece and themes from West side story. Well I will try and describe without too much bias the performance.
Debussy-...where to start.....well first off I thought he completly took it out of context, the speed he changed it to made it incredibly long, and at that tempo there is no excuse for technical errors.
Bernstein-.....only thing I felt that was succesful in this piece was the glissando.....I am not going to mention his sound because that is my persoanl opinion, and I wont talk about his vibrato, other than the fact that I could not tell at times if he was articulating or using vibrato.
Poulenc-....only comment is...when I played it I really dont remember glissandos instead of 32nd notes....maybe it was just me, but that was a mess
From hearing the first half, and talking with a few other people who attended the concert and knew what they were talking about, I was done. I am sorry I cannot report on the 2nd half, I was so utterly disgusted by the level of the performance that I had to leave.
I am not trying to bash him at all, he did that himself, and I am just voicing that I am very dissapointed.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-04-17 04:09
I attended the same masterclass, but had to miss the concert due to a quintet rehearsal. I will have to say that I was disappointed as well, although a lot of folks needed to hear his points about thinking outside the box. I was also interested in what he had to say about his own beginnings.
I was very impressed, though, with the students in the masterclass. Chuck West has a good thing going on there.
Allen Cole
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Author: William
Date: 2004-04-17 16:08
Years ago, RS gave a "master class" to a group of high school students which I attended as their (former) middle school teacher, and he was--to put it mildly--disappointingly unemotional, dull, aloof and blantantly out of tune with the school piano in his playing demonstration. I vowed never to by his CDs or even listen to him again.
However, in a performance last year in our city, his performance--with a few minor technical errors--was absolutely brilliant in every way.
Bottom line--being a virtuoso does not automatically make one a great (or even average) teacher.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-04-17 17:11
Are you guys rivals of Richard, or what? No human being is capable of the overall perfection you seem to expect.
It's a well known fact that some people who are excellent performers are not so good at teaching, and vice versa. Where does that leave you?
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: charlesmunden
Date: 2004-04-17 18:01
I was not saying anything about the masterclass, the masterclass is seemed like he knew what he was doing, but I was only saying about the he didnt get it across very well. I understand that no one will be perfect and it is rare to be good at both. I am only saying that he is supposed to be an amazing performer and I was extremely dissapointed, not at his teaching skills but at the performance in general.
Charles Munden
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Author: cowboyjonus
Date: 2004-04-17 23:14
paul garner of the dallas symphony is an very good example of someone who is a great teacher and a great player.
i also think that to be a great teacher it is mandatory that you enjoy teaching.
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Author: SomethingCopland
Date: 2004-04-18 02:07
charlesmunden said:
"I am only saying that he is supposed to be an amazing performer and I was extremely dissapointed"
Contrary to popular belief, no one is supposed to be anything. Richard Stoltzman, well, he surely is someone, but he's not supposed to be anything. He's sold a great deal of records, he's one of the most renowned classical clarinet soloists to have existed, but that doesn't in an of itself make him a supposed to be amazing performer. I know for a fact that he was an amazing performer, and that at age 62 he's probably lost a great deal of his youthful spunk which made him a great business man and soloist. He's a good player. He may not be the performer who recorded the controvertial Copland recording of 15 years ago, but heck, give people a break. It is your choice to care at all about his playing or not. I think he's done wonders for the clarinet and to respect that and his artistry is to respect our own art, however we contrive it.
Stanley, Sydney, Russ, Michelle, David, Deborah, Chuck, Jon, Ricardo, Marc, Sabine, Elsa, Laura, John, Larry, Robert, Paul---They all know Copland.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-04-18 03:53
SomethingCopland wrote:
> I think he's
> done wonders for the clarinet and to respect that and his
> artistry is to respect our own art, however we contrive it.
Good sentiment.
But ...
We've had these discussions about Stoltzman many times before. I don't want this thread to become a "good/bad" discussion of Stoltzman. Rather, if this thread is to continue, let's stay with performer/teacher discussions or recording/live performance expectations in general.
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Author: mingusg
Date: 2004-04-20 23:09
This guy, Stoltzman, clearly has to be stopped. I even have a recording of him playing the Mozart Concerto on a soprano A clarinet. We all know that this wasn't Mozart's original intentioin. And to make matters worse, he goes and transcribes a Bassoon Concerto for Clarinet, and puts in on the other side of the Clarinet Concerto and the record becomes a best seller and introduces yours truly and many others to Mozart's bassoon concerto.
Then the guy is really sneaky, he waits a few years and then starts recording crossover piecess and even has the nerve to give us a new, fresh reading of the Copland and Nielsen. We shouldn't have let it get that far, but then he starts recording Operatic Arias for, you guessed it, clarinet solo, thereby introducing hundreds, perhaps even thousands of young clarinetists to his beautiful and wonderfully sensitive and musical playing. Did he stop there, no the whole time, he accepts invitations for recitals, masters classes and guest appearances, sometimes even at Universities where he can influence young and untrained students to a different way to play the clarinet.
Let's not even get into the ridiculous double lip embochure, we need a whole new thread for that
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-04-21 00:32
So... he's been thinking and playing 'outside the box', has he??? And, I presume, earning his keep doing it. Maybe he's nudged a few creative minds in other directions as well in the process.
Yeah, definitely, we must put a stop to all this nonsense 
- ron b -
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Author: Tim2
Date: 2004-04-21 02:08
I hear your inflection, ron b. I'm with you.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-04-21 03:25
It took me halfway through that post until I realized it was sarcastic... I was about to go off! heehee
DHite
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Author: ksclarinetgirl
Date: 2004-04-21 04:37
I think that there's always always always going to be two camps in the clarinet world: those who like Stoltzman and those who don't. Why don't we just agree to disagree and quit fighting about it?!
Stephanie :o)
"Vita Brevis, Ars Longa"
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-04-21 04:39
Invariably, a discussion about Stoltzman is one about ourselves and the nature of our musical upbringing.
The masterclass was filled with talented, enthusiastic clarinetists looking for info on the CLARINET. Stoltzman, whatever his faults may be, was trying to get us to look out ourselves as MUSICIANS who happen to express ourselves through the clarinet.
He was showing a wide viewpoint in a room full of narrow ones. There were two professors and a number of students present who I would probably rather hear in recital. But if I needed to pick a player to put in any situation other than a orchestra, wind ensemble or chamber group, Stoltzman would probably have been the only viable candidate.
It was interesting to hear him talk about his father playing tenor sax along to Lester Young records. I wonder how many clarinetists in that room--or on this BB for that matter--have ever heard Lester Young's clarinet playing?
Allen Cole
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-21 04:53
allencole wrote:
> Stoltzman,
> whatever his faults may be, was trying to get us to look out
> ourselves as MUSICIANS who happen to express ourselves through
> the clarinet.
Isn't that remarkably similar to Artie Shaw's philosophy?
Benny, of course, would have reversed it and said "to look at ourselves as CLARINETISTS who happen to express ourselves through MUSIC".
Probably the reason I've always been partial to Artie Shaw...GBK
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-04-21 12:53
Mingusguy says it well....and he knows mouthpieces too. I totally agree that RS has done more for the clarinet world than some of his contemporaries....and predecessors. As an average player I enjoy playing his "Aria" apertifs much more than the Poulenc and Copland. Although some clarinet "masterpieces" may be challenging.......how much fun are they? (K622 IS fun,however)
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2004-04-21 14:29
Because I live in NYC and have friends in the classical music business I have attended many Richard Stoltzman concerts. There's always a sold out house of seemingly satisfied listeners. I always end up leaving the concert saying to myself "I'm glad I didn't have to pay for that!" I can think of so many players who perform far less effortlessly and far more musically.
Also, when I tune into a piece of clarinet music on WNYC with the distinctive vibrato I cringe and say: "That sound like Stoltzman. I always guess right.
All that being said, I am very, very pleased by his efforts to expand the clarinet repertoire. I am not a purist when regarding instrumentation and believe that like the sax, the clarinet should incorporate the music of other (especially wind) instruments. Stoltzman has much success in this area.
Also, he has done much to bring clarinet music and playing to the forefront of the music world. Many people love his music and buy his cds. And this gives him a legitimacy that we must acknowledge.
For all clarinet players, his success in both of these endeavors is extremely important. And I am very happy that he has been successful.
Cheers,
Ron Jr.
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2004-04-21 17:15
It is kind of like saxophone and Kenny G. All non-musicians know him as a saxophonist and he sold more records than most players. Unfortunately, he is not considered someone that deserves that reign in the eyes of woodwind players.
I think a great example of someone to hear would be YO YO MA of the cello. Now that is someone who can back his self up. OFCOURSE-That does not mean that he is a good teacher.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-04-21 17:26
>>Although some clarinet "masterpieces" may be challenging.......how much fun are they?
I have a blast playing the Poulenc and the Copland. In fact, last night I found myself playing the cadenza over and over, having just discovered a new way to approach the rhythms in my head. If there's a piece I'm not having fun with, at least half the time it's because I'm playing it comlpacently. (though the other half may be because I just don't like the piece)
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Tim P
Date: 2004-04-21 18:09
well here is a completly uneducated opinion.
I have enjoyed my reunion with the clarinet after a 35 year break. It has filled a void left by the "empty nest". It has provided me with new friends and a great hobby.
That being said; I must tell you that a little over a year ago I heard on the radio a piece "O Mio Babino Caro" (sp.??). It was absolutely beautiful and it grabbed really grabbed me. About half way though it I thought "hey that is a clarinet" and then I thought "I want to do that and I bet I can".
Turns out that RS was the clarinetist. I now own the CD and the Book. If I ever meet him I will be sure to thank him. I practice one hour each night , joined a community band and play Piano/clarinet duets with my Mother-in-Law every sunday.
Thank you Richard Stoltzman.
Vibrato-- no vibrato, technicallly correct--- not correct, right instrument--- wrong instrument..... I am not "smart" enough to know, but music needs to appeal to the audience as well as the artist, and I know what appealed to me.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-21 19:39
[ This thread has now run its full course and is closed - GBK ]
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