 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-02-04 02:24
SWK, I always find your posts realistic, well-grounded and overall excellent advice. Your name says exactly what you're about - you're someone who KNOWS. I've never found anything you've said to be wrong, un-researched, or insulting - I believe that if someone found what you say personally insulting, it's their problem and let them deal with it.
Unlike most other clarinet discussions I have visited, this place certainly ISN'T a hand-holding support group, nor should it be. There have been occasions where people have replied to my posts in ways that I didn't like, but who am I to be pissed off about that? I asked, I got an answer, whether I liked it or not. I think some need to deal with this issue. If you don't want an answer that may not be what you're fishing for, don't ask it.
My two cents...
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-02-04 02:31
geez...what was the original exchange about?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-04 02:59
Good point. I hope people read and recognize this thread. I'm sure we've all written something at some point or other that could be construed as "mean" or "undeserved", however whether it was a lack of judgement, or simply the way we feel, people should recognize that they have the choice to simply ignore a statement if they feel it was wrongfully posted or rebuttle in a hopefully good manner. And while this person responded to your post in private (which was a good thing to keep personal matters between two people off the board), if they did insult you then they really didn't show any better side. I know I've had a few responses on this board to questions and comments of mine that I didn't like, but it's only text on my computer screen. I find it easier and less stressful to scroll my little mousewheel down than to let my bloodpressure rise and furiously type out a sarcastic 'witty' response.
Sorry. Maybe I'm venting from seeing too much childish behavior and ridiculous arguments on this board and others (not so much this board though. Which is a very good thing).
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-02-04 03:48
Well, (nodding agreement with above responses) I like your posts and comments, Someone.
On an even more personal level, to anyone who cares to listen, I've discovered over the years that to upset me, a person has to begin by making an intelligent statement. That usually rules out 99.9% of anything that might be intended that way 
- ron b -
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Author: beejay
Date: 2004-02-04 05:36
Wow, from the header I thought this was going to be a thread about spam.
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-02-04 05:57
"The reason I remain anonymous is so that I can put some attitude in my posts rather than having to be careful all the time."
I don't think this is a valid reason to stay anonymous - are you a person who is extraordinarily well known perhaps? Most of us have an "attitude" you know, without needing a veil of secrecy.
John Kelly
Melbourne
Australia
Age 55 and a half
5ft 10 in
13 stone
brown hair
brown eyes
high school dropout
oh.....yeh amateur clarinet player too!
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Author: Markus Wenninger
Date: 2004-02-04 06:34
I wish I´d be as evenly tempered as most of the above seem to be - of course I know it´s of no use and a waste of energy, but some threads tend to unsettle my ki to not a slight degree, I must admit. But I hope I´ll learn, though I don´t have any "cynical attitude" whatsoever to hide out in, most often I fail to even recognize it.
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Author: mags
Date: 2004-02-04 08:29
If I wasn't married I would ask you out for a date..Mgtx To John Kelly from Australia...that is!
Post Edited (2004-02-04 08:32)
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-02-04 09:55
John Kelly - I didn't know you were in Melbourne, we must be the ONLY two from here that post here, since a certain someone I go to uni with moved interstate this year!
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-02-04 10:23
In the tools folder at the top of the e mail menu you own, you can always block the sender by going into the options....may be a good idea.
David Dow
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-02-04 11:50
Hmm... gotta wonder if that came from a .EDU address.
I still think you should be at least 4 feet tall to ride this BBS...
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-02-04 11:51
Hi,
I began a string a while back about "would we say...." located at
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=132175&t=132175
Those that did not read it at the time or are new to the BB, might want to review the string.
Too often, some pretty salty things are said that might be tempered somewhat in a face to face situation (or when the parties know each other).
HRL
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-02-04 11:54
SB,
I also have a .edu address but use my own email. Is there something significant about comments from such a domain that I am missing?
HRL
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-02-04 12:07
Implying that a university or college student wrote it.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-02-04 13:19
I have been watching American Idol with the same fascination people watch traffic accidents. You cannot take your eyes off it. What I find most interesting is the complete delusion and outrage of the contestants when they get harsh comments back from the judges. What I have seen on the show doesn't even begin to touch how harsh the business is. What I have seen on this bboard is equally not in a league with reality. In the real world, when money is on the line and the clock is ticking, feelings aren't spared. It is about getting the job done. SWK is trying to convey some of that, and has done so much more mildly than one would expect.
SWK's frankness should be considered an asset because it is a way to get honest feedback in a completely nonthreatening way. It isn't like he is dressing people down in front of a masterclass (which I have seen on numerous occasions from some of the frequently mentioned greats). Take advantage of it, talk back if you don't like it, ignore it if you don't value it.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-02-04 13:25
Gosh, SWK, I'm a bit disappointed. I've always respected the fact that you're pretty unapologetic in your opinions, and now you're letting some of these mokes goad you into defending yourself here? I wouldn't figure you'd care to waste the brain energy it takes to respond to what must have been a truly silly email.
There's enough emotional support here that a rough-edged dose of icy reality from someone who's paid some real dues is welcome, and perhaps needed. Stick around.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-02-04 13:32
LeWhite,
My other email is hlehrer@mail.unomaha.edu and I am a professor (and have been for a long time).
There are several other professors on the BB and we are allowed to use the email as well :-).
Be careful about generalizing that a .edu extension implies a student.
HRL
Post Edited (2004-02-04 14:12)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-02-04 13:33
What is fascinating is the absolute idiocy of the American idol judges...
David Dow
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-02-04 14:37
Ho hum....
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-02-04 15:08
"Ho hum..." what? Is there a point there? I clearly missed it.
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-02-04 18:05
i've been at auditions as a candidate and seen people play with no idea or completely inapropriate vibrato etc (on clarinet!) and i actually found it really depressing!
in one case a man from south america (a long way from nz!) had moved here with his family, was unable to get work in his field and was trying to go for any work he could- he actually played the whole audition on a plastic student horn (transposing the A clarinet parts) and had good fingers and timing- obviously some good talent. He unfortunately played with a wide mellow but unfocussed sound, and his vibrato was a bit crazy. Sad- he had really worked hard.
but ok, i can laugh at the violin story...
donald
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-02-04 18:41
There is a thread on the saxontheweb.forum : "Post subject: The Clarinet BBoard: where the weak are killed and eaten." Some of you (who participate in both BB's) responded. I don't recall ever being "eaten" here, but maybe "gummed" just a little bit--in which I took some joy considering I started the arguments in the first place. SWK is sound and profound. If he were to be SWAK rather than SWK it would all be rather blah and mundane. Press on good Sir!.
Bob A
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2004-02-04 18:44
SWK--If you don't like what you're reaping maybe you should sow something else besides a caustic "cynical attitude."
Matthew 26:52 comes to mind.
Bob Schwab
"Men are God's methods. While men look for better methods, God looks for better men." E.M. Bounds
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-02-04 19:01
Bob A,
The direction to "There is a thread on the saxontheweb.forum : "Post subject: The Clarinet BBoard: where the weak are killed and eaten." Some of you (who participate in both BB's) responded. " was a great idea, thanks.
Lots of old friends posting on this particular thread as well. It might be good for some of our BB members to sneak over, lurk a little, and see how this assemblage is viewed by our sax colleagues.
Great reading. "Where the Weak are Killed and Eaten" is a wonderful title.
HRL
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-02-04 19:09
Killed and eaten? Heavens no! That is simply barbaric. I prefer to eat my prey alive.
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2004-02-04 19:55
Bob_A: Thanks for the smiles -- "gummed" & "SWAK" -- very good!
Todd W.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-02-04 20:25
"The reason I remain anonymous is so that I can put some attitude in my posts rather than having to be careful all the time."
I can see where some may have issues with the anonymous nature of this board. The saxgourmet forum states "If you wish to post anonymously, there are several forums that will be happy to have you. This is, unfortunately, not one of them. I believe that if what you have to say is important, you should sign your work and let us all know who you are."
I can see the value of this, since it can really make one think about what one says and how it is said.
I like to go out at night and throw eggs at my neighbors houses so I can let them know how I feel about them without being caught. ;-)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-02-04 20:37
Ed: Where do you live?
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Author: RM
Date: 2004-02-04 21:01
I have to say that SWK's posts are worthy of our attention. I dont really care for his tact and attitude, but his ideas are pretty straight on.
I do not know SWK personally, but knowing his identity I have to say that he has a good amount of professional experience and from all accounts is a fine player. I think its just his bluntness that upsets some folks. I listen to what he says and take from it what I may, paying little attention to the attitude. Some of us have a more positive outlook than others.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-02-04 22:33
Synonymous Botch- why do you have to assume it was a student anyway. There are plenty of students on this post that are a lot more civilized than you seem to be in some posts, and a lot more helpful too.
Since no-one really understands both sides of the story, I would think we'd all wait to find out before jumping on the bandwagon and praising SWK( especially since I am only a student and most of you are wonderful all knowing adults). I guess not.
Either way, I'll wait till I find out the WHOLE story before I make up my mind. For the meantime, I really have no use for people that have the knowledge but blur it with such an arrogant, cynical attitude. If you meet someone in person then you understand that and deal with it, but a forum like this is here to help- so I don't think this is the place for such annoying personality traits.
Bradley
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-02-04 22:39
Hey Everyone,
Calm down. Let's not have this thread become the students against the adults. We all went through enough of that while we were teens and again when we raised them.
HRL
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-02-04 23:13
"I also have a .edu address but use my own email. Is there something significant about comments from such a domain that I am missing?"
"Implying that a university or college student wrote it."
Was just answering your question re: the previous posting, sorry! Another example of how things can be misinterpreted because all we have here is TEXT.
Re: students vs. adults, not to provoke anything, but sometimes I feel that professionals look down on students, can be condescending, and generally can use and abuse that power that they have. Not to say anyone is doing this right now, it's just a sweeping generalisation that I'm sure many people will have differing opinions of. Having worked with a few of the pro's who are currently leading orchestras and universities in Australia, I know a few nasty ones whom I could SWEAR were out there to make the younger nervous kids in masterclasses cry and go away seriously doubting their abilities and left uninspired rather than just bursting to practise that Beethoven excerpt again!
But such things we deal with and press on if we want to reach 'the top' (not that it exists!). Choosing what to take to heart and what to throw away is yet another skill in what it takes to 'get somewhere' in the profession. Not that I would know.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-02-04 23:18
Things have gone on long enough now.
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