 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bnanno
Date: 2004-02-03 09:28
I am new to the forum, and I want to buy a recording of the "Quartet for the End of Time", a piece of which I heard in an informal setting. Any reommendations as to a good one?
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2004-02-04 20:43
I recommend the 1975 version by TASHI on RCA Gold Seal. The group
consisted of Peter Serkin, piano, Ida Kavafian, violin, Fred Sherry,
cello, and Richard Stoltzman on clarinet.
Mike Blinn
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-02-04 20:49
And here are Messiaen's comments about this extraordinary work:
Liturgy of crystal. Between three and four o'clock in the morning, the awakening of the birds: a blackbird or a solo nightingale improvises, surrounded by efflorescent sound, by a halo of trills lost high in the trees...
Vocalise, for the Angel who announces the end of Time. The first and third parts (very short) evoke the power of this mighty angel, a rainbow upon his head and clothed with a cloud, who sets one foot on the sea and one foot on the earth. In the middle section are the impalpable harmonies of heaven. In the piano, sweet cascades of blue-orange chords, enclosing in their distant chimes the almost plainchant song of the violin and violoncello.
Abyss of the birds. Clarinet alone. The abyss is Time with its sadness, its weariness. The birds are the opposite to Time; they are our desire for light, for stars, for rainbows, and for jubilant songs.
Interlude. Scherzo, of a more individual character than the other movements, but linked to them nevertheless by certain melodic recollections.
Praise to the Eternity of Jesus. Jesus is considered here as the Word. A broad phrase, infinitely slow, on the violoncello, magnifies with love and reverence the eternity of the Word, powerful and gentle, ... "In the beginning was the Word, and Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Dance of fury, for the seven trumpets. Rhythmically, the most characteristic piece in the series. The four instruments in unison take on the aspect of gongs and trumpets (the first six trumpets of the Apocalypse were followed by various catastrophes, the trumpet of the seventh angel announced the consummation of the mystery of God). Use of added [rhythmic] values, rhythms augmented or diminished... Music of stone, of formidable, sonorous granite...
A mingling of rainbows for the Angel who announces the end of Time. Certain passages from the second movement recur here. The powerful angel appears, above all the rainbow that covers him... In my dreams I hear and see a catalogue of chords and melodies, familiar colours and forms... The swords of fire, these outpourings of blue-orange lava, these turbulent stars...
Praise to the Immortality of Jesus. Expansive solo violin, counterpart to the violoncello solo of the fifth movement. Why this second encomium? It addresses more specifically the second aspect of Jesus, Jesus the Man, the Word made flesh... Its slow ascent toward the most extreme point of tension is the ascension of man toward his God, of the child of God toward his Father, of the being made divine toward Paradise.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-02-04 22:37
My two favorite are Deplus with Messiean's widow at the piano..
.and I really like Boeykens as well in this...
David Dow
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2004-02-04 22:37
If you are one of the many clarinetists who isn't a Richard Stoltzman fan, the Paul Meyer/Gil Shaham/et al recording is a good alternative.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-05 09:10
I got to know the work via the Gawriloff/Deinzer/Palm/Kontarsky recording, which I suspect would still be my favourite of the three I own if I still had a record deck to play it on. Whether it is now available on CD I don't know. And Deinzer plays an Oehler....very unauthentic. (Or is it? It was written, and first performed, in a PoW camp in Germany. What instruments would they have used? Did the Red Cross send a Buffet? Or did one of the camp guards kindly bring in his daughter's unwanted school clarinet?)
There is also a recording by Messiaen himself. Again I have this on vinyl. It is notable for the appalling English translation of the sleeve notes: "Quatuor for the end of Ages.....one of the strongest and most dense chamber music works of nowadays.....Messiaen plays the piano himself, marvellously supported and accompagnated by three virtuosos..."
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: bnanno
Date: 2004-02-05 10:56
Thanks very much; I have noted all the suggestions, and hopefully shall be able to find at least one of them in the local music shops. David, i had heard about the recording by Messiaen himself; I shall try to hunt for it. How come you don't have a player with all those wonderful vinyls taht you have? I have changed and modernised my deck often (especially the speakers), but the record player still sits firmly on top of all the changes going on underneath (a Marantz that we picked up in Tottenham Court Rd, early 90s)
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-05 11:57
bnanno - I have a Dual that we picked up in Tottenham Court Rd, early 80s!
It's not in great condition, and I fear it may be damaging records. I've never got around to replacing it. My real favourite vinyl records I tend to have on CD as well.
Regarding Messiaen's own recording, I have some very vague recollection that he himself thought it was not the best available. Unfortunately I can't remember which one he recommended.
My copy of Messiaen's recording is on a label called Musidisc Collection Richesse Classique. It is undated. Its number might be RC 719, or MU 209, or 30 RC 719, or MU 719. If you are anywhere near me (Sussex or Berkshire) email me and you can borrow it.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: bnanno
Date: 2004-02-06 09:53
Thanks David,
Really appreciate your generosity, but I happen to live over the sea on that "continent", otherwise I would certainly contact you!
The thing is that a lot of the stuff that I have on vinyl I can't get on CD, and also my pocket gets a bit limited a lot of the time, but the record deck is in excellent shape. If you suspect yours is damaging the vinyls, keep them away, they might be museum pieces soon!
Another question: am looking for a CD published last year of clarinet pieces by Bozza called "Rhapsodie Nicoise" (I think some were originally written for the saxophone), by HUNGAROTON. Even though its new (July 2003), my music shop says that they are really awful about distributing, and we have been unable to get them to send us one despite repeated orders.
Anyone has any experience of getting HUNGAROTON to part with their stock? any ideas will be much appreciated.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-02-06 11:04
bnanno wrote:
> Another question: am looking for a CD published last year of
> clarinet pieces by Bozza called "Rhapsodie Nicoise" (I think
> some were originally written for the saxophone), by HUNGAROTON.
> Even though its new (July 2003), my music shop says that they
> are really awful about distributing, and we have been unable to
> get them to send us one despite repeated orders.
http://www.hbdirect.com/showmuzedata.cfm?key=675754624323 ...GBK
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-02-06 16:06
The cd with the composer is with my old teacher Guy Desplus on French Erato...its very good and I feel it is a good reference record.
David Dow
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-06 16:26
David Dow - are you saying that Messiaen recorded the Quartet with Guy Desplus? If so, this is not the recording I have, which has Andre Vacellier on clarinet, Jean Pasquier on violin and Etienne Pasquier on cello.
bnanno, sorry, failed to notice the domain name in Euskadi, nowhere near the Tottenham Court Road!
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-02-06 17:07
The Deplus recording was "supervised" and "approved" by Messiaen, but he did not play on it. A great favorite of mine has DePeyer on clarinet, from his salad days of about 1969, with Beroff on piano, Gruenberg on violin and Pleeth on cello. EMI has thankfully recently rereleased in in the USA. It is coupled with a superb Le Merle Noir with flutist Karlheinz Zoeller.
(Deplus recorded a fine Mozart Quintet with the Danish Quartet on Telefunken/Teldec.)
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Author: ALOMARvelous12
Date: 2004-02-07 01:44
I have actually just received the Stoltzman recording of this just last week. It's probably the best selling Messiaen recording there is, and of course, you can't really go wrong with it as it sure doesn't have any problems, even for non supporters of Richard Stoltzman.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2004-02-07 15:30
David Peacham,
An English company called Rega still makes very simply and awesomely good turntables at a very reasonable price. One of these would bring you vinyl collection back to life.
As for Messian, I have the very fine Deplus version, but I also like a recording by the InterContemporain ensemble with Alain Damiens as the clarinetist.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-07 16:48
Beejay - I know about Rega! I just don't get around to it. One day I shall buy a modest deck and transcribe all the vinyl I still want to listen to on to CD-R. (Is that legal? Probably not.) Right now I don't have the time.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-02-08 20:57
I think you'll find copying a CD for home/archival purposes is not breaking the law ... it's only if you copy and then on-sell.
Does anyone know if Jacquelin du Pre. ever recorded this work?
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-02-09 12:35
For some reason I was dissapointed with the DG Meyer reading...I felt the rythmic playing not very well done in a few spots and ensemble not as tight as other recordings...especially the violinist!
As to the sound it is one of the most beautifully recorded Quartor pour le Fin de Temps ever...
David Dow
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Author: bnanno
Date: 2004-02-10 12:03
Thankyou GBK,
David, so you know eusk, but I did live for a number of years around Tottenham Court Road, does it still have all those electronics shops? I might be in the UK in the summer, so will try and see for myself. Tomorrow am going armed with all these recommendations to the local music shop, hope I have some luck.
Thanks for all the info on the recordings.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-10 15:48
bnanno - so far as I know Tottenham Court Road has as many audio shops as ever. You can check in the paginas amarillas on http://www.yell.co.uk.
Not sure whether these shops will stock Rega and the like. http://www.rega.co.uk will tell you that.
If you want cheap audio kit, you might do worse than visit one of the many branches of Richer Sounds. They have some real bargains.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-02-11 00:37
by the way
Messiaen supervised the Deplus recording, also the Deinzer one if my memory is correct- so these two versions would be good references esp for comparison or different interpretations.
i had (now lost) a great recording of Marina Sturm playing it with members of the NZ string quartet (live performance- they lost energy about halfway through and Marina was not happy with the performance, but the first few movements were GREAT)(this is a danger with this piece- that you'll "run out of steam")
donald
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-02-11 13:58
One of the finest performance I heard of this was at a concert of James Campbell and the Orford Quartet back in 1986...it was incredible and the Abyss of the Birds was inspired.
I think as of late Campbell is sounding a bit bland....
David Dow
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Author: bnanno
Date: 2004-02-12 09:28
Well,
I went armed with all your suggestions to the two music shops that I know, and came up with
One had Gil Shaham/paul Meyer recording, but couldn't find it.
Another one had had a recording where I don't know the clarinetist, had Daniel Barenboim (am I spelling it right?) on the piano, but were out of stock.
So then the only thing I found was a recording by the Amici ensemble (I think they are from the Toronto Symphony) and as this had the virtue of being very cheap on offer, I bought it for the sum of 4.50 euros, at least as a starter.... don't know any of the players, but the booklet gave the following info which someone had wondered about earlier in the thread.
Messian was bale to compose becuase he had managed to keep some paper with him. The violinist and clarinetist had somehpw managed to convince the Germans to let them keep their instruments with them in the camp. The Germans eventually procured a cello for the cellist albiet minus one string. Messian wrote the piano part for himself, although no piano was available, but on the performance day the Germans managed to bring an upright into the camp, although it was "woefully out of tune, and several of the keys stuck"
Well, I shall keep trying for the other recordings you mentioned.,
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-12 11:53
bnanno -
I mentioned in an earliet post that I have three recordings of the Quartet, but only described the two I have on vinyl. The Barenboim is the one I have on CD. I would not recommend it.
The story you quote of how the quartet was composed and premiered is as told by Messiaen. In another recent thread, GBK recommended a book which tells the story differently. See, for example, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0801441366/reviews/103-0836730-0955069
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-02-12 14:22
The Amici Ensemble recording is on Naxos, with Joachin Valdepeñas playing clarinet. He's an extraordinary player, who, I understand, may move to conducting soon.
I don't own the recording, but, unfortunately, it's gotten consistently poor reviews.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: beejay
Date: 2004-02-12 22:12
David Peacham
If you ever get round to converting your vinyls, do look at a piece of software called Wave Corrector, available on the Internet. I've transformed scratchy old records with total success.
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Author: bnanno
Date: 2004-02-13 09:18
David,
Good then that the shop couldn't locate their Barenboim CD!!
That was a most interesting link, although I don't buy from Amazon or Internet sites usually becuase of their exhorbitant (relatively) shipping and handling charges to send things here. Instead I write to a nice bookshop in a corner of England, who only charge me the postage they actually have to pay at the post office; I think thats fairer.
About the cello having three strings, I just supposed that was when they first got hold of it, but I just assumed that they had managed to get a fourth string later... didn't think that Messiean menat that they actually played with the 3 stringed cello, but anyway, I suppose our stories grow embellished with age.
Anyway, I had wondered what happened to the other members of the Quartet, so that should be good. Have you read the book yourself?
Someone lent me a recording of Paul Meyer playing a Sonata by Saint-Saens, and it was beautiful.
Ken,
Yes that is the clarinetist, unfortunately, I couldn't find any other recording.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-13 10:11
I haven't read the book, just read about it on the web after GBK recommended it in the thread "Do musicians live longer?"
As Messiaen told it "le pauvre Pasquier jouait sur un violoncelle à trois cordes. Heureusement, il avait l'ut grave." Full account (en francais) at http://www.scena.org/lsm/sm7-7/quatuor.html. The book claims that this, and other aspects of Messiaen's account, are untrue.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-02-13 14:55
There is an excellent article in the current issue of International Record Collector detailing the history of the piece and its recordings. Many legends have grown up about the Quatour's genesis and apparently not all are true (i.e., 3-stringed cello). One interesting fact is that the original clarinettist, Henri Akoka, quite a character by all accounts, managed to escape from the camp (with his clarinet -- I'd be interested to see that particular instrument...). It seems, also that Messiaen supervised a total four recordings and approved them all (his own, obviously, Dienzer, Deplus, and I believe, the Barenboim). Another fine recording is by the NY Philomusica with George (?) Rabbai playing excellent clarinet. It was once available on Vox and may have been re-released by the Philomusica on their own label.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-02-13 18:51
Anders -
It's Joseph (Joe) Rabbai. He recently retired as co-principal in the Met Opera orchestra.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Anders
Date: 2004-02-13 20:31
Thanks, Ken, I knew George didn't sound right, but I'm emailing from work, away from my collection, and dealing with 56-year old brain cells...
(By the way, when I was a tad, Mr. Rabbai came to my sleepy little village in New Jersey (Glassboro) as a guest with the short-lived South Jersey Chamber Orchestra and played the bejeezus out of the Polovtsian Dances, a real inspiration...)
Cheers, Anders
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