 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Corey
Date: 2003-03-07 22:37
I know that these mean turns and know how to do them but I have come across one with a slash in the middle and dont know what it means......please help.....--Corey
|
|
|
|
|
Author: angelpineapple
Date: 2003-03-07 22:44
It's and inverted turn. All it means is to go down first instead of up. I had one in my solo this year and didn't know what it meant until the judge told me after i played. Hope this helps!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2003-03-08 02:13
Why didn't you check it out before playing for the judge? If you didn't lose points for that you should have. When you play, you are supposed to play the music per the copy you give the judge. Surely you worked on it for several weeks before hand and thus had the time to investigate this and learn it correctly. Not doing this gives any judge the impression that you really don't care about music even if you do.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-08 02:21
I am sure they already know this. Everyone makes mistakes, and this person could have just thought they knew what it was , when in actuality they were wrong.
I do not mean to take up for angelpineapple in the way I am, but Dee is really coming off way too harsh to be truly helpful- especially after the fact.
Bradley
|
|
|
|
|
Author: angelpineapple
Date: 2003-03-08 02:42
I didn't notice the slash through it until it was pointed out to me. My teacher also didn't notice it and my band director (who had played the piece many times before) didn't realize the I was doing it wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2003-03-08 02:54
No it is not meant to be harsh but as a wake up call to look at the music and see what is there. In other words you can't change the past but you can be ready to deal with the future.
Angelpineapple is a student and students do miss things and make mistakes.
However, the teacher and band director really should not have missed it. The fact that they did now puts the burden on angelpineapple to scrutinize the music with a fine tooth comb for anything that he/she has not seen before or looks odd.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-08 03:00
I was just saying that angel has learned from her mistake- so I dont think being harsh would really do anything in this case.....
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2003-03-08 05:21
Bradley, I believe Dee has a science/engineering? training. She would have been taught not proceed to do something without confirming that her approach was correct, and quite properly considers others should do likewise. Personally I think you are a little harsh on Dee. After all, she is right.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-08 05:39
So if I was harsh on Dee- you have to admit she was on angel as well.
Its nothing personal meant to Dee- I just thought she was a little harsh in this case- thats all.
Btw- of course she is right......
I was not attacking her validity or credibility- just saying she seemed like she was insulting angel's intelligence and competence.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-03-10 19:54
Bradley --
Your gallant defense of angelpineapple brings up what seems to me to be a problem inherent in Internet/e-mail communication--communication by written word alone. That is, there is no feedback/additional information in the form of tone of voice, facial expression, or body language to show the poster's intent.
Neticons (and now the "smileys" available on this site) can help, as can various qualifiers (e.g., "it seems to me", IMHO). However, I think some of our most experienced and knowledgeable posters are also the busiest and often tend to eschew these devices in favor of a quick, straightforward reply. Sometimes brevity/curtness is read as harshness.
I have always found Dee's replies (those I have felt competent to evaluate) to be knowledgeable, and her attitude (as I read it) consistently to be one of helpfulness, not (undeserved) criticism.
Todd W.
P.S. One little quibble with Dee here: "Angelpineapple is a student and students do miss things and make mistakes." To which I would add: As do we all. :+))
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2003-03-10 20:13
No offense, Brad, but:
There is not a thing wrong with what Dee said, except too many sensitive people who want to discuss and analyze her literary (as opposed to speech) pattern.
She did not insult anyone and was neither rude nor particularly harsh. She was "bottom line." That means that she said what she had to say in a neutral, but short and direct statement without all the frills that the "New Age Sensitive People" want to see in every issued communication today.
Hooray for Dee and her "straight to the point" and most helpful posts. I wish more people would take a page from people like her, skip over the bullfeces and just say what they mean.
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-10 23:54
This is such a great board for learning about clarinet.
However- all these pros like to attack beginners like me, angelpineapple and others lording their "knowledge" over us.
All the time you guys belittle us- whether outright or to yourselves- but we can tell.
I was merely reacting to all the times you people have done that.
It has gotten to the point where people ( i know of many) dont wanna ask any questions because they're scared of getting chewed up by "the almighty professionals".
I am not directing this at people like Peter- but others have really just gone too far....
Sorry to Dee for taking it out on her in this thread- but then again, thats the way things go, and if people want to ruin it for the up-and-comers ( when you get around the egos, althought it is hard- this is truly an awesome Board for guys like me) then someone is going to react.
My rant is officially over
Bradley
When you're right- you're right, but you dont always have to be........
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Corey
Date: 2003-03-11 00:06
I Don't think Dee was in the wrong in what she did. Angel is obviously more of an advanced player because I've never seen turns in any other type of peice except high level ones. Therefore, she should have paid more attention to style markings and such. I think what Dee pointed out was absolutly correct- "if you didnt get points taken off, you should have"- I couldn't agree more! Bradley- you are taking this way too seriously, I've been viewing and posting on this board for a long time and while I do admit there have been times when people have been harsh in what they say, but I dont see that this fits the case at all. I've never seen any of the Pro's make a pun at any beginner's question, they understand that you are new to the instrumnet and music and have a lot to learn and are going to ask alot of questions. You may have taken what Dee and others have said the wrong way which is what I think has happened. I also dont see any point in bringing the subject up again and agian. If you dont like how you feel you are treated than find another source for information- it's that simple. There shouldn't be any reason why you should be scared to ask a question, and if you do, then maybe you could talk to the webmaster and discuss the problem with him to find a solution. -- Corey
Post Edited (2003-03-11 01:08)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-03-11 00:55
Bradley wrote:
> This is such a great board for learning about clarinet.
>
> However- all these pros like to attack beginners like me,
> angelpineapple and others lording their "knowledge" over us.
It's not an attack - nothing like it.
In fact, you're being treated as peers - if you make a statement here (opinion or otherwise) you must be prepared to back it up - with experience or demonstrable repeatability.
After all, an opinion with no basis is less than worthless.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-03-11 01:18
Bradley --
Peter, in his usual direct manner, said much more succinctly than I what I was trying to get across to you: short, direct statements are not necessarily rude nor harsh. (Although he's right, I prefer to take a softer, "New Age Sensitive People" [That's a compliment, right, Peter? ;+)) ] approach.)
Even though I think you recognize that, you still seem to believe that at least some of the experienced professionals who contribute to this board like to attack and belittle beginners. What I see on this board is an overwhelmingly generous willingness by all of the professionals (and those of us who don't fit that category) to answer just about any question asked by anyone at any level of acquaintance with the clarinet. The only two exceptions are: 1) questions that have been answered many times here; these may get a short, direct statement that the questioner should first search the archives, and 2) questions that seem to indicate the person asking the question wants someone else to do their (homework) assignment; these often draw very pointed rebukes.
Is it possible that what you are construing as attacks are really challenges to dogmatic statements, such as "Brand X is the best", or "Brand Y is garbage"? That kind of statement will draw challenges to explain/defend it. And, yes unfortunately, those threads can become combative in tone and sometimes produce more heat than light (understanding).
Anyway, you've started and contributed to some good threads here. I hope you'll stay. And remember, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :+))))))
Todd W.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-11 01:42
LOL
Well- you dont have to worry about me leaving ( although someone of them might prefer that hehe j/k ofcourse)
While I dont agree with all you said up there- I'm not gonna get into it because even I am tired about my defensive comments ( right or wrong) and I can only imagine what readers feel- so this is it for me on this topic.......
Anyway- I still really like this board, and I do thank you guys for taking the time to answer us newbies ( even though the manner in which you do bothers me lol moving right along....)- so thanks
Bradley
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2003-03-11 15:39
Brad,
I'll even go you one higher.
Most of us will tell someone we know well enough that they are full of crap (read a harsher word) when we think they are, but hardly any of us would speak in those terms to someone we don't know, or feel we don't know well enough, or are not friendly enough with.
When someone on this board tells things in a certain fashion, often they are treating you as if you belonged in the same household with them. I could almost hear my mother "yelling" at me for having done something stupid when I read what Dee originally said to angelpineapple here.
Think about it. I would worry more if people here treated each other with the utmost respect and watched every word they said to each other all the time. That would denote a lack of friedship and common bond with each other.
Haven't you read all the times I (or someone here) has refered to this BB as a "family" place to be? Well, there it is.
Todd,
Sure... if you want it to be a compliment...uhmm... yeah, O.K....
Enjoy!
Peter
Post Edited (2003-03-11 17:16)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-11 16:34
True- but if it was truly a family atmosphere, then newbies like me and many pthers wouldnt complain about being afraid to talk freely.
You have to look at it from our point of view.
Bradley
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-03-11 17:43
Bradley wrote:
> True- but if it was truly a family atmosphere, then newbies
> like me and many pthers wouldnt complain about being afraid to
> talk freely.
You mean you can say whatever you want at home with no repercussion? That I'd like to see ...
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2003-03-11 18:27
We humans are inventing a new form of communication here on the web. There are zillions of mannerisms and customs that people use face to face, in families, at cocktail parties, etcetera, to get past these misunderstandings. This discussion will come up many more times, I bet. The bottom line? The information available on the web is amazing; and it is good to have another place for different aged people to talk to each other. But don't take the misunderstandings too seriously!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: ken
Date: 2003-03-11 19:20
Wayne wrote: "and it is good to have another place for different aged people to talk to each other."
--or musicians of the same generation that remember the same groups, artists or heck, even the same Presidents would be welcomed ... and that works both ways for the hard charging new breed here who can't relate to us "slowly aging, but very hip young people." ---thanks Frank!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-11 23:05
Mark- I cannot say "whatever I want", but I can state an opinion.
I am telling you this as a fact- why are you trying to disprove me?
Speak freely as in expressing opinions on a certain issue without being chewed up by others.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-03-11 23:09
Bradley wrote:
> Mark- I cannot say "whatever I want", but I can state an
> opinion.
> I am telling you this as a fact- why are you trying to disprove
> me?
>
> Speak freely as in expressing opinions on a certain issue
> without being chewed up by others.
Speech brings with it certain responsibilities.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Peter
Date: 2003-03-12 01:53
Tell me about it.
Hey Brad, I've had my butt run ragged on this BB whenever I've said anything others thought wasn't right for any reason whatsoever. So have a few others of us. That's true of any and everything you might say anywhere in life.
The neat thing about this place is that the people who run your butt ragged today, will defend you tomorrow concerning something else altogether. But if the people who get run ragged one time don't stick around long enough to be defended the next time, they may never find out how well it works!
And I won't even go into how people here can have a "spirited argument" (to put it nicely) one day and agree on something else the next, without regard to what happened before.
Stick around and take your lumps with the rest of us. It gets better as it goes along.
Peter
Post Edited (2003-03-12 03:50)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2003-03-12 04:28
Bradley, this discussion is about the fact that Dee was critical of a relatively advanced student for not finding out the meaning of instructions in her music before performing it before a judge. What Dee was critical of, I think, is the laziness and negligence implicit in that. The comment about deduction of marks is right, and the student (Corey) needed to be made aware of that. Poor attitude needs to be pointed out and hopefully corrected. Injured feelings have no place in a straight exchange of facts if we want truth to be expressed freely. I would hate to see Dee withdraw from offering her usually excellent advice because of a few fragile egos among us, who cannot accept criticism. I wonder if Corey sees this in the same light as Bradley?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-03-12 06:02
Seems to me Corey does not need to be made aware of anything, other than a response to his question, which he already got from angelpineapple. Corey was the original questioner, trying to find out the meaning of the marking through the BB.
It was angelpineapple who drew criticism for having performed a solo incorrectly and interrogated as to why she (she? a guess) didn't check the marking more thoroughly. Her response appeared to be that she relied on her teacher and band director. Having had the guidance of only her teacher and band director, why on Earth did she trust those people? Beats me. She says she didn't notice the marking, and neither of those assisting her told her she wasn't playing it right. No doubt about ti, she was just plain lazy and negligent. Oh, yes And presuming that one's teacher and director know what they are doing sure sounds like poor attitude to me, too.
It seems obvious that she should have gone to a fount of all knowledge such as this BB (as Corey cleverly did) to get the *definitive* answer. We all know that correct responses are always the ones ladled out around this bulletin board, yesiree. Look at the almost universal agreement reached in just about every single thread. Hey, we are lots better than angelpineapple's teacher and band director, you bet. We know it all and will tell anyone all about it in no uncertain terms.
Regards,
John
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2003-03-12 09:57
John, I deserved this one. Mea culpa ... apologies to Corey and angelpineapple. But I do think that complaints about the directness of replies "hurting people's feelings" unreasonable. I would add that I have far more questions than answers myself, and am not afraid to ask them.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-03-12 14:28
Karel, my opinion of you has increased.
This BB is certainly educational, though. I was previously unaware of the meaning of the mark described by Corey, For that matter, _Harper's Dictionary of Music_ doesn't show the thing at all. (I have another music dictionary but have not checked it because, thanks to my infallible system of organization in my office, I haven't seen it since sometime last year.) I don't know what the Harvard Dictionary has to say (I do not own one), but even it is not error-free... same as any of us.
Regards,
Joh
|
|
|
|
|
Author: angelpineapple
Date: 2003-03-12 15:13
Some editions of music are better printed than others. In the edition I had, the slash was barely visible. If I had been able to see it, I would have asked questions. And I assume that there were points taken off but we were graded 1-5. One ornament played incorrectly doesn't cause a 1 to go down to a 2. Next time I perform this piece it will be played correctly. Solo and Ensemble contests here are meant to be a learning experience. I learned something.
|
|
|
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
