 The Fingering Forum
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Author: SG
Date: 2000-07-14 23:13
The owner of this site has brought to my attention an interesting question. Can fingerings be copyrighted, therefore making unauthorized distribution illegal? The idea, I believe, is nearly hilarious. Wouldn't we all be guilty then for using them and teaching them? According to copyright laws, facts can not be copyrighted - especially if they are widely known. To the advance saxophonists, nearly all fingerings are widely known as no doubt we have all tried about every finger combination know to man to get notes, especially altissimo notes, in tune. No permission by anyone is needed to state that July 4th is the day of American independence. No one claims plagarism even if two people have a similar way of holding a cup while they drink. How, then, can the distribution of a small collection of fingerings be illegal? It is not.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-07-15 00:54
Fingerings cannot be copyright but fingering charts can be copyrighted. The presentation of the data may involve substantial creative effort and thus the chart may be eligible for copyright.
Also a web site can be copyrighted even though some of the data it contains is not.
So you have to be careful what and how you copy something.
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Author: SG
Date: 2000-07-18 20:01
The webmaster of this page has told me that fingerings themselves are copyrightable. That in order to distribute these fingerings (even in a unique manner), that I must contact the publisher of the fingerings who possesses the copyright. And just who would those people be? For those that do not know the copyright laws, facts can not be copyrighted, only the expression of them.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-07-19 22:27
I suspect that there is some type of breakdown of communications going on here or some other type of misunderstanding. Many people actually think the fingering charts are the same as fingerings. So when you ask about it, they believe that you mean the charts.
Of course, as always, you should check with a copyright attorny if there is the potential to have a real problem.
However, it is true that data can not be copyrighted but the presentation of that data (i.e. book, chart, etc) that contains the data can be. Therefore don't copy other people's charts. Make your own. The other sticky part of this is that some people interpret the term data very loosely in an attempt to get around the copyright law. So court cases do come up from time to time on this issue.
So far every fingering that I have seen on this site, I have also seen elsewhere.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-07-20 01:14
SG wrote:
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... How, then, can the distribution of a small collection of fingerings be illegal? It is not.
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How do you propose to distribute this collection? By copying and passing out some one else's document or by creating your own out of the raw data? There is a *huge* difference. The first approach has the potential to lead to big legal problems while the second should not (although some people might try to cause problems anyway since even the silliest lawsuits get court time in this country).
As I re-read your post, it does not appear as if you have a clear understanding of the difference between the data and a document containing the data. Under most circumstances, you cannot copy someone elses document but you may extract the data for re-use.
Afterall unless you are directly talking to someone and physically demonstrating the fingerings, it is impossible to distribute them without using a descriptive document of some type.
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Author: SG
Date: 2000-07-20 12:53
The fingerings are on my own site which I have put many hours into gathering fingerings from a experience, friends, books, a few web sites, and experimentation. I do understand the difference between data and a document. Were I just to copy the HTML code used I would indeed be plagarising. Instead, I am just using the fingerings in my own compilation. Again, the webmaster of this site is upset that I am using the fingerigns themselves, not that my charts resemble his in any other way.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-07-21 01:21
Very interesting since all the fingerings that I have seen are documented elsewhere. Afterall, there are several highly regarded books on fingerings that contain far more than any web site. The following books are highly recommended.
Clarinet Fingerings by Thomas Ridenour
Clarinet Fingerings (also know as 303 Clarinet Fingerings and 276 Trills) by Alan Sim
Altissimo Register: A Partial Approach, The by Paul Drushler
These can all be ordered from the following site (a description of the contents is included at the site).
http://www.vcisinc.com/
Other clarinet material is available there too.
I believe there are even books on multiphonics but I don't know where to order them.
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