 The Doublers BBoard
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Author: Clarinet&Alto15
Date: 2010-03-18 01:16
I recently finished a high school performance of Hello, Dolly! as reed 2, doubling clarinet and alto saxophone. I've been thinking about adding another instrument to my "arsenal" so to speak, and I can't think of one I could really become proficient on before the next musical. I realize that I should probably pick up a flute for a competetive edge for lead parts, but I also know a double reed would give me an even greater edge. As far as other varieties of saxes and clarinets, I could probably play them with almost as much ease but I wouldn't know where to get my hands on them. I am also reluctant to take on oboe/EH w/o a teacher. Any suggestions?
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Author: rcnelson
Date: 2010-03-18 13:46
Flute is the next logical double IMHO. I played it along with clarinet, alto, tenor and baritone sax before I graduated from high school and have never tackled the double reeds. Yes, oboe would give you a competitive edge. I guess it would depend on your goals. If you want a shot at the lead reed books, then flute and piccolo would be your next set. But if you simply want to keep busy AND oboe/English Horn is in demand in your part of the world, then go for them. BUT...a teacher would be a requirement. I have done pretty well on flute without a lot of formal lessons on it, but would be even better had I taken lessons from a non-doubling flute specialist.
Best of luck.
Ron
Selmer Mark VI tenor (1957), Selmer Mark VII alto (1975)
Buescher True Tone soprano (1924), Selmer CL210 Bb Clarinet, Gemeinhardt 3SHB Flute, Pearl PFP105 Piccolo
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Author: Clarinet&Alto15
Date: 2010-03-19 01:24
Well the thing is, out flute players who could cover the reed 1 books are graduating and our school usually frowns on hiring professionals because they like it to be a completely natural "student experience". I took the lead clarinet part in reed 2 for hello dolly, and for future shows I know I probably won't be as lucky as to have a part cued for only two instruments. I think flute would be a logical choice, but I really admire the sound of the oboe and we have flute players to at least cover flute and picc as of now, as the doublers are graduating. It's a tough choice. I have a school loaned oboe that just sits in my band locker taking up space, and each time I try to bring it out it's a flop. Thank you for your reply! Eventually I would like to learn both, but the question is what to tackle first. I've tried flute, but only produced a shrill, red faced "f". I'm used to my air being blown in the horn rather than over it, so it will be a challenge either way
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-03-20 01:34
You should try the instrument you like better or can play better. For oboe, you do need a teacher. Also, sound is an issue. A student model flute sounds better than a student model oboe--in my opinion--especially when the player is not yet at a professional level.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2010-03-22 02:38
I understand your thinking that playing a double reed would give you "an edge" over the competition in shows, but generally speaking, the oboe book is oboe only, and that means you would be throwing away your ability on sax and clarinet. And that is assuming that you'd get good enough in a reasonable amount of time to play the oboe proficiently.
I've played all the woodwinds for many years, and my suggestion is to learn the flute next. Being able to play sax, clarinet, and flute is a lot better than only playing sax and clarinet. By picking up flute, you'll still be getting an edge over other players, since most Reed 1 and 2 books expect that you can play all three horns. Double reeds are a different animal. Despite your first fumbling attempt to play flute, it is a much easier instrument to learn and play than oboe.
There's plenty of time to learn oboe later on. Unless you have a lot of time to devote to learning oboe right now and can take regular lessons, you will not become proficient quickly enough to play shows any time soon. Oboe is a completely different universe from sax and clarinet and is a specialized horn unto itself. You'll make much more progress, more quickly, on flute.
Stick to the single reeds for now (I consider flute to be "single reed"!). Again, most show books expect that you can play sax, clarinet, and flute. It's very satisfying to be able to play an entire book by yourself, instead of having a flute player sitting next to you playing the parts you can't. You'll be much more attractive to a music director as a triple-threat on Reed 1 or 2 than as a wannabe oboe player. And it doesn't make any sense to throw away what you can already do on sax and clarinet.
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Author: rcnelson
Date: 2010-03-22 13:23
Jaysne has stated it well...I will reconfirm my vote for "FLUTE IS NEXT".
Ron
Selmer Mark VI tenor (1957), Selmer Mark VII alto (1975)
Buescher True Tone soprano (1924), Selmer CL210 Bb Clarinet, Gemeinhardt 3SHB Flute, Pearl PFP105 Piccolo
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Author: Clarinet&Alto15
Date: 2010-03-22 19:05
Thank you for replying, all of you! Your advice helped a lot. And your right. Looking at Bret Pimentel's website, there are far more books that call for "single reeds" rather than double reeds along with single reeds. There are actually only a few that call for a combination of oboe along with single reeds, and its usually tenor sax and/or sop. I guess for now the oboe is just going to have to stay an admiration. Next band class, the oboe goes back in and i take home a flute. thanks for your help! (Plus, I dont have time to take on lessons, and lessons are not AS necessary on the flute). The one thing that i think can hurt my clarinet playing is the looser flute embouchure. I had the same problem when I took on alto sax a few years ago. Both embouchures are looser than clarinet, and the clarinet being my primary, I sometimes attain a small, sharp sound on the sax because of my "clarinetists" embouchure. But looking at the other posts, it seems that many people have the opposite problems, with the sax being their primary and the clarinet being a "torture" stick. haha.
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2010-03-22 20:42
Sounds like you've kinda made up your mind, but I thought I'd chime in too. As a primary oboist, I second the opinion to learn the flute next. Especially if your goal is pit playing. Of course if you want to learn the oboe because you love it, that is something else! But you will get FAR more gigs in general if you have fl/clar/alto chops. The oboe books TEND to be oboe/EH, sometimes adding clarinet and tenor. Of course some of the books are totally wacked and have some weird combination, but that is the usual.
It is true that with double reed chops you CAN get some gigs, but to get to the level you'd need to be able to play - you need a teacher - reeds are expensive and hard to adjust - learning curve is WAY higher...for many HS productions where they are trying to keep things "in house" they often play the oboe parts on the flute or transpose on the clarinet (ack - it kills me to say that, but it's true!) You'd probably spend your time better learning the flute (and try to at least get one or two coachings with a professional flutist just to make sure you're on the right track - crappy embouchure can make you have a "doubler's" sound) and learning to transpose on the clarinet. You should be able to transpose from C for sure. Good luck!
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Author: Clarinet&Alto15
Date: 2010-03-22 22:08
Well, actually one of my concerns about future shows was that we dont have any oboe players (competent ones,..that is) and for shows in the future we will either need a pro or someone will have to play it on flute, or it needs to be transposed. For lack of a better phrase my head has basically been bitten off when i once suggested someone transpose or play a difficult passage on an instrument in the same key, (ie tenor/clarinet) but i know people have different positions on it. I guess it depends. But yes, it seems to be the general consensus that i should learn flute next, and thank you all for helping! :D I will say though, that I really admire the oboe and those who can play it well. I will definitely look at it in a few years or whenever i feel comfortable adding another instrument after flute.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2010-03-23 03:23
You're right about the instrumentation in shows. If the show is a "saxophone show", meaning that it has a full sax section (think Guys and Dolls, West Side Story, 42nd Street), then the oboe player (usually Reed 3) will often be doubling on 1st tenor and English horn. (Reed 1 will be lead alto/clar/flute/picc; Reed 2 will be alto 2/clar/flute; Reed 4 will be tenor 2/bassoon; Reed 5 will be bari sax/bass clarinet.)
But when you get away from sax shows, the oboe player is just oboe and maybe some EH. Occasionally they'll ask the oboe player to also play some clarinet.
As far as playing parts on other similarly-keyed instruments goes, it's not as simple as you might think. A friend of mine in college was a great sax player who refused to learn clarinet. He thought he could get away with playing the clarinet parts in a pit on soprano saxophone. NOT! The soprano is way too bright to try to mimic a clarinet. And doing the same on tenor/clarinet would not work either, because their tone color and projection qualities are so dissimilar. (I do think, however, that it is acceptable to play an oboe part on flute. Obviously it's not the same, but I think you can play flute just as expressively on an oboe part as if it were written for flute originally.)
Post Edited (2010-03-23 05:56)
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Author: Clarinet&Alto15
Date: 2010-03-23 05:26
I agree where there are some cases that it's not a good idea, like when the timbres of two instruments are so far apart. But sometimes if instrumentation is limited, transposing or playing in the same key on another instrument becomes necessary. But your right. There are times when it's just not do-able.
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Author: Clarinet&Alto15
Date: 2010-06-25 19:49
I hate to re-hash this after all this time, but feel compelled to share with everyone that I have chosen the oboe. I have been playing (with the help of a teacher) for about a month, and what a difference a teacher makes!! I use her handmade reeds which have greatly improved my tone, and I think I'm almost out of the duck phase after practicing so long and hard. It's definitely worthwile, and I feel I made the right choice. No matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't find a love for the flute. It may have been the easier road and the more conventional one, but I feel I have gotten much more out of the oboe. I love it, and have no regrets.
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-06-25 23:29
Congratulations for following your instincts and your own direction. I have been wondering whether learning to double early in life, as you and my daughter (age 14) are, makes it easier to learn all these different instruments than if you waited until college or later. My daughter seems to have no trouble picking up new reed instruments. She has been playing oboe and sax for 5 years. In March she started studying bassoon with a teacher, and she has learned it very quickly. I think it's largely due to the fact that she doesn't hold herself back.
Have you tried piccolo? Mine could play it, sound-wise, the first time she tried it. Maybe it's because she plays the soprano sax a lot. But flute, that's another story. Flute is the only woodwind she hasn't taken to.
Post Edited (2010-06-26 14:51)
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Author: Clarinet&Alto15
Date: 2010-06-26 01:35
Actually I have not tried piccolo. That could work. But I really am enjoying the oboe. I do agree with your theory though. I think that beginning doubling early is easier because children and teenagers are less set in their ways and are more apt to WANTING to try new things. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but I do agree. And I can understand why she hasn't taken to the flute. I personally dislike it more than any other woodwind instrument. I've never thought about the bassoon, but who knows? Maybe in a few years time I too will play the bassoon. Haha.
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