 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-10-29 21:12
I can't get to it without registering with the Ft. Worth Star Telegram. Could you give us the gist of the matter?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-29 21:15
Yes --- clarinet playing has given me carpal tunnel in both wrists -- whom can I sue?
(Note to our non-American friends --- in the USA, nobody is responsible for his/her own problems, it's always someone else's fault --- and having the highest per capita attorney count in the world [I've been told] we are encouraged to file lawsuits for ANYTHING bad that happens to us, and we win such suits a frighteningly high percentage of the time.)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-10-29 21:56
Brenda -
It's a free registration. I gave them a made-up name and e-mail address, and it went through fine.
The article (which is highlighted at the IDRS site) is about a university conference on musicians' injuries, including trauma from brass mouthpiece pressure, loss of hearing, and muscle, nerve and joint injuries. Problems of clarinetists include carpal tunnel syndrome and injury to the right thumb and wrist from supporting the instrument, which, the article noted, can often be relieved by an inexpensive neck strap.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Rebekah
Date: 2004-10-29 22:00
To help guard against carpal tunnel, a wrist support on the mouse pad makes a huge difference.
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-10-30 02:54
Yes - I got carpal tunnel in highschool. I was playing clarinet and piano at the time, plus spending a lot of time on a computer. Oi! Unfortunately, no one recommended a neckstrap to me, and I honestly didn't know they were available for the clarinet. I wore wrist braces when playing clarinet, but it was only a marginal improvement.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-10-30 03:21
Ken lists a litany of injuries which can occur to musicians:
<<musicians' injuries, including trauma from brass mouthpiece pressure, loss of hearing, and muscle, nerve and joint injuries. Problems of clarinetists include carpal tunnel syndrome and injury to the right thumb and wrist from supporting the instrument>>
Anybody ever hear the old saw, "No pain, no gain." ??
Where did we get the idea that it is normative to waltz through life with nary an oowwie or a skinned knee? Or is this all something new? -- did instrumentalists prior to, say, 1950, NOT have these problems? If they didn't, then whatsa matta with us? What are we doing/not doing differently?
Seriously, I'd like to know.
Susan
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-10-30 03:40
ohsuzan wrote:
> Or is this all
> something new? -- did instrumentalists prior to, say, 1950, NOT
> have these problems? If they didn't, then whatsa matta with us?
> What are we doing/not doing differently?
Nothing new. Instrumentalists have had career-ending injuries due to overuse for hundreds of years. Pianists and violinists have fallen by the wayside often.
The clarinet has been getting significantly heavier over the last 200 years as more keys have been added and as more keys added the wood has become denser.
"No pain, no gain" may be true of gross musculature, but is misleading at best without knowing why it's hurting.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-30 12:39
Bassoon is way, way more "unergonomic" than the Clarinet. And the Saxophone isn't very ergonomic either.
The strings are notorious too. Clarinet isn't that bad compared to them at all and the Flute is a lot worse on the wrist than the Clarinet is.
The Selmer Recital Clarinets are heavy like a big rock.
And never ever play with pain - wrist pain means STOP AND REST.
Often wrist injuries are measured in months and years, not days and weeks for recovery.
Don't rush it.
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-10-30 13:25
"Where did we get the idea that it is normative to waltz through life with nary an oowwie or a skinned knee? Or is this all something new? -- did instrumentalists prior to, say, 1950, NOT have these problems?"
But many people with carpal tunnel aren't talking about a LITTLE pain. Because I was told that I was being a wimp about pain in the early stages of CT, by the time it got bad enough I got over my pride and went to a doctor, there were some days that I couldn't so much as hold my clarinet because of the pain that shot up my arm, and later, because my entire arm would go numb and I couldn't grip anything with my right hand (my left never got as bad). It wasn't the pain that bothered - it was an injury that meant I couldn't physically do things like hold a pencil properly.
I'm a horrid example, because I was doing so many different things to cause a RSI, because I was also sleep deprived and under stress and because I ignored the problem for a VERY long time. But I assure you that it's not just "a little pain". It can turn into something that affects your ability to grip anything smaller than a doorknob.
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Author: Woodwinder
Date: 2004-10-30 17:45
I have been in touch with Bob and Jean Anderson, who wrote the book "Stretching", which is an all occasion stretch book with thousands of great illustrations. It was listed in the QPB book club, so it's a widely used book and is in about every massage therapy and physical therapy office. I mentioned that musicians needed a book like it, because they almost always develop repetitive stress injuries which are instrument specific. They liked the idea. They sent me some wonderful body working tools, and a set of good exercises, most of which I already do, but they're good. But is there a good book out there? Would this be a good field to explore if I wanted to compile information for such a book?
We have to keep playing to be any good. If we don't, it makes it that much harder. So my answer is to keep exercising, stretching, and keep the aerobic thing going. It's good to know from a physical therapist how to get at the right muscles. It's like keeping up with the dishes---if you let it go for a couple of days it gets out of control.
And definately, use a neck strap, or a harness if you play sax. I'd like to know more about what flute players do. And any other instruments, really.
I remember when playing was physically pleasurable. I'm getting better all the time, though, so maybe when I'm eighty?
Seriously though, please send me any info. Thanks, Signe
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-10-30 18:31
It's also vitally important to play relaxed. Nothing accelerates injury like continuous tension in the hands (not to mention the nervous, forced sound it produces). The note will come out just as well (better, actually) when gently pressing the keys, compared with "pushing" the note out with your hands as hard as you can.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-10-31 04:49
I certainly didn't intend to belittle anyone's pain. I'm in nearly constant pain (not only in my hands) myself, and I have come to a point where I struggle to comfortably hold my 1990's era R-13 -- it's just too darned heavy. Or else I'm just too darned old.
But I can also say that a pro clarinetist about 15 years my junior who was my standmate this past summer in community band had even more problems than I have. She was using -- very successfully -- a "fhred" support. I've been playing for about 50 years, and I don't remember clarinets being so heavy when I was a pup. Have they actually changed since then?
This is one -- but only one! -- of the reasons why I enjoy playing the oboe more than the clarinet these days. It is, comparatively, a lightweight, and it's fun to be able to feel dexterous again.
A couple more years, and I may be down to the soprano recorder.
Susan
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2004-10-31 04:53
Slithy Toves,
Consult a doctor, the braces are often recommended to be worn AT NIGHT while sleeping.
Rebekah,
My wife found that swithcing to a trackball was even better than a mouse pad with the support.
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Author: Iacuras
Date: 2004-11-01 02:39
The only trouble I have with my clarinet is with my left thumb. I am double jointed in both thumbs, and when playing clarinet my left thumb pops into the second joint (makes using the register key a lot easier), but then when I pop it back to the normal position, it hurts quite bad. I don't have that problem on my bass though.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2004-11-01 04:06
I am also double jointed and my right thumb gives me problems. The other problem is that I have what appears to be a mushroom growing outside under my lower lip. I'm going to see a dentist next week about getting my lower teeth fitted for some kind of a soft plastic cover. Don't know if that will work but my lower teeth kinda look like Vampira and this strange happening occurred after some heavy duty practicing for a jazz festival. The festival is over but the physical defect lingers on.
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-11-01 11:50
Jim,
It was actually under the advice of a doctor that I wore the brace in the first place. Thankfully, it's been a number of years since I've had any major problems. When I went off to university, I stopped playing both clarinet and piano, and now, 9 years later, I'm just coming back to them both. This time, I am much more aware of any pain or tingling in my hands, wrists and arms, and I stop.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-11-01 13:26
Ergometrics are important. As a surgeon I use laparoscopic instruments that have the activation levers set along the axis of the instrument which forces that hand into a contorted position. This creates pain in the thenar (base of thumb) area.
I suppose I could sue myself for surgical injury (sic).
I play Recital clar. which IS heavier, (and use double lip embrouchure). Thumb discomfort has not really been an issue for me (luck?). I tried the strap, but did not find it all that helpful. I do agree that the thumb rest needs to be higher than you would think.
Bassoonists seem to really hike up the right shoulder....I would wager they have a tough time.
I think we all need a personal masseuse/masseur and Chiropractor with us at all times. Perhaps the lawyers in congress can make it a tax deductable expense as long as tort reform will be table ad infinitum.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2004-11-01 13:33
I'm a believer in being a "big baby" about hand & wrist pain, at least in terms of orthopedic consultations. I recently saw my orthopedist about a "hot spot" I developed in my left hand after some extended practice sessions, and I took along my Series 9 bass when I went. (The Series 9 is ergonomically abominable; it requires extreme extension of the left-hand ring finger, coupled with a left-hand c# lever that requires the pinky to be stretched way off to the side; even practicing a couple hours a day over a month, if you're working on licks that involve a lot of lh-rh pinky stuff, can give you serious pain.)
The orthopedist's solution was several hundred dollars' worth of keywork and a course of physical therapy to build up the muscles in the left hand, none of which I can afford at the moment; he gave me some stretching exercises in his office that help a good deal, though, until I'm flush enough for the other stuff.
His most affordable piece of advice? "Stop playing totally for a week!"
So here's a vote for getting professional medical input at the first sign of a problem, AND for just plain stopping when it starts to hurt!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-01 15:22
Personally I don't think that the Recital Clarinet should be played without extra support.
It's just asking for an injury. Consider trying different straps (neoteck makes one, BG, and there are other methods to support the clarinet) and devices - don't ruin your hands especially if they are your livelyhood.
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-11-01 23:55
Okay, so while we're talking about pain...
Anybody have any trouble with pain inside the lower lip where it lies over your teeth? I can't seem to play for any length of time without this happening, for some reason all of a sudden at this stage of my life. I play almost every day, but a long, intensive rehearsal will wear out my lip into hamburger. Just age, maybe?
Sue
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Author: Andrewcn
Date: 2004-11-02 02:44
Hand and wrist pain can be really serious if neglected, to the point where you have to stop playing altogether, for months at a time.
The best support I have found is the Pan support, because it takes all the weight of the instrument, but doesn't restrict your movement at all. I've used one on and off for years, whenever I have a lot of work on.
I can't see that being in pain is any advantage to your playing.
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