 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: K Denny
Date: 2002-10-11 19:40
Hello all! I am compiling a list for a fun research project. If you
have ever played 2nd clarinet (or even first clarinet) in a
professional, semi-professional or even university orchestra, I
would be interested in your responses to the following questions:
(basic responses and even anecdotes are appreciated)
1. What do you think is the most important role of the 2nd
clarinetist in the orchestra setting?
2. What is the most important aspect of the relationship between the
first and second clarinetist?
3. What are some things that the 2nd clarinetist should NEVER do in
a rehearsal? Consequently, what should the 2nd clarinetist ALWAYS
do?
4. Have you ever said or done anything in a rehearsal or concert
that you know now was a horrible faux pax... what would you suggest
to someone that finds themselves in a similar situation?
5. What is the importance of the 2nd clarinetist being able to play
on other instruments within the clarinet family?
Thanks in advance!
Kristen Denny
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
Graduate Teaching Assistant, clarinet
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Author: david dow
Date: 2002-10-11 19:56
1. I play solo clarinet in symphony Nb and here are my response:
1 the second clarinet is a very essential bridge between the clarinet and the basson. The second clarinet also does get solos and has alot of work playing unisons and chords with the 2cd flute and oboe. the second player also acts as a reinforcement for the tone of the 1st clarinet and is a vital part of some orchestral duet solos.
2 the ability to adapt your playing styles to one another ois of prime importance. the two parts also have to be perfectly blended and phrased, so I wouold say a v;ery relaxed and open relationship is of prime importance. a good second player should also be very accurate and technically reliable.
3 never tap their feet or make gestures that are distracting to the 1st. it is also important for the second player to be on time and never overblow but match their sound to the first. (unless they are playing a solo line)
3Yes, and I regreted my faux pas and apologized. When my partner played a wrong note I gave them a dirty glance. And by the way the conductor looked at me like I PLAYED THE WRONG NOTE. However, these things occur once in a while. Its best to be understanding.
4 the 2cd player should certainly know a good deal of bass clarinet technique, saxophone and also eb clarinet technique. This helps in concerts where we have to play parts with instrument doubling.
Sincerely
David Dow Symphony NB
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Author: Ken
Date: 2002-10-11 20:16
In any ensemble you play for, free or paid. 1) Prepare, read, and cover your part to the absolute best of your ability. 2) Always do your best to musically support and make the Principal clarinetist "sound better than they are". 3) Keep your mouth shut if you want the phone to keep ringing. v/r KEN
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2002-10-11 20:58
As my teacher taught me- The 2nd clarinet player's job is to make the 1st clarinet sound good.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-10-11 21:31
Here is something I wrote a while ago:
Author: William (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date: 04-28-02 12:51
Sneakers--Don't "premadonna" violinists always complain about everything, anyhow?? Or is that just my imagination. While they are concerned with all their little bowing and seating problems, if is wasn't for us wind players to establish a tonal center for the strings to grasp and hang onto, there is no telling what tonalities they may unknowingly drift into. And isn't it also true that wind sections always look to the Principal Clarinetist to set the "mood" of the work being performed?? And who always enables the Principal Clarinetist to sound their best (by adjusting intonational discrepancies and keeping track out measures rests, etc)??????--it is the Second Clarinet(!!!)--who actually is responsible for holding the whole orchestra together, but never gets asked by the conductor to stand up and take a bow. Good Clarineting!!!! (BTW--proud to be Second and still waiting for my bow)
Some other thoughts:
#3--Never ask, "Are you having reed problems?" or "is that a different mouthpiece??? Hmmmmmm"
#5--Being able to play Eb, C and bass clarinets as well as all saxes makes you less expendable.
#2--Always smile and nod approvingly of anything the conductor says.
And always be ready to save the Principal clarinetist, just before a big solo, by removing a lost tube of cork grease from her clarinet with a tympani mallet. A true story.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-10-11 21:52
I learned, during four years in Air Force bands (three of those years playing second clarinet, one year playing first), that whatever part you are assigned to, give it your best all the time every time.
I knew this before I entered the service, of course, but it was thoroughly reinforced in 'real world' situations as real earning-a-living-at-it musicians. You have to learn to get along with your co-workers - no matter what job you're doing - if you want to be reasonably happy. Be tolerant, behave and be nice and you'll gain more that you'll ever be able to return.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-11 22:16
One of the most important traits a second clarinetist can have (besides the necessary impeccable intonation, and rhythm) is the proper attitude.
Working as a team is most essential.
A second clarinetist should not be in competition with the first clarinetist. Nothing is worse than a second clarinetist who is a disgruntled "first clarinet wanna - be"...GBK
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Author: richard
Date: 2002-10-11 22:36
I played 2nd this summer in a community orchestra for the first time. Here's what I learned:
1. Play accurately and in tune. Do what is asked of you without complaint. Some music, e.g., Mozart #39, requires two strong clarinetists.
2. Accept the role of supporting player. Supporting actors also win Oscars. Be adaptable.
3. Never show up the principal. If he asks for advice (on fingering, for example) give it, but don't offer. Always be on time and prepared.
4. Learn the 1st part, especially the solo passages--the principal may be incapacitated at some time and you may have to cover--but don't agree with anyone who says you play them better.
5. It's a good idea to be able to double. (My second favorite instrument is the baritone sax.) And to be able to transpose oboe parts and play bassoon parts on the bass clarinet.
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Author: Pam
Date: 2002-10-12 00:43
I play in a church orchestra, usually second part, sometimes first depending on what we need.
1. To play the second part well so as to support the 1st part and help those not as strong. Also to learn the 1st part where needed, as our 1st chair often is doubling oboe parts.
2. Listening well to blend. Anticipate what's going to happen. Knowing him well enough to know what's going to happen and when. (Pretty much always on the last verse of hymns, he'll do the melody an octave up and I switch to playing 1st.) Being ready to cover for him in a solo section if needed and then backing off gracefully when he is back in. (It has happened recently and he appreciated it.)
3. Never complain in rehearsals. Always be an encouragment to others.
4. Probably.Think before you open your mouth.
5. Knowing more instruments couldn't hurt. Or how to transpose the parts so they can be covered.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2002-10-12 01:59
1) to blend flawlessly with ANY other instrument you have figures with, whether it's horn, 2nd flute, oboe, viola, low reeds, celli, whoever. (this frequently means tuning yourself on the spot to a slightly different tonal center than your principal's, or varying the timbre of your sound so the blend is better with other instruments--so a corollary here is listen, listen, listen)...
2) to know your principal's stylistic quirks, preferences, & idiosyncrasies so well that if he/she even BREATHES differently, you're already there...
3) NEVER overplay the principal, & don't assume you have a lead line when you're playing inner lines with non-reeds, and ALWAYS have the count over long (10 or more bars of rests) so when the principal turns to you & says, "What's the count?" you've GOT it...
(also, ALWAYS have the principal's part down cold, just in case, but NEVER use it as a warm-up with him/her sitting next to you)
4) If you mess up with someone, do what your integrity tells you to do to "make it right," then STOP...
5) doubling is a 2-edged sword--you're more valuable to the orchestra, but maybe less so to the principal, since if the principal is indisposed, and you're covering bass, Eb, saxophone, etc., they'll probably bring someone else in to cover principal. But if you're having fun playing instrument roulette, what the hey?
PS--all of the above goes equally for 2nd alto in a big-band sax section. In fact, the disciplines and imperatives to blend are identical.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2002-10-12 03:42
Cut through the crap. Unless you have a supporting line under the melody from another section/soloist you must tune to your job/responsibility first and foremost is to stay in tune with your "principal player and section". Follow him/her and let them listen, lead and tune to the rest of the ensemble. v/r KEN
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2002-10-12 03:56
Can't add anything that hasn't been said, except that I prefer to play second - we get some pretty neat solos too, along with some great harmonies and "can't do without" syncopations to play while the firsts get the boring melody line.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2002-10-12 04:10
It all sounds so restricting, and boring. Why would anyone want to play 2nd under all those conditions? I've only played 2nd a couple of times, not very regularly. I've predominatly played 1st for years now... so I guess I have alot to learn if I end up doing 2nd.
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-10-12 04:11
Hi,
You know the idea of being second clarinet has several other parallels in music. I used to work with a trumpet player with a large ego, a strong sound, and it was his combo. I played tenor and was always aware that my most important job was to play my second to his first. We were not using any charts so I had to fake the harmony lines which once you understand what you are there for, seems to come out well (a good ear helps).
I was always called for the gigs and managed to have plenty of solo opportunites; we really did some very good jazz, pop, and dixieland tunes. Whether it is second clarinet to the prinicipal or my tenor to the leader's trunpet, relax and enjoy it.
Hank
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-10-12 05:01
Well, if you do play second clarinetist professionally Nick, you'll be needing to rely on all of the skills and qualities needed that you've learned required of the position of principal clarinetist...including approximately 5 equally important others.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2002-10-12 06:23
1. What do you think is the most important role of the 2nd
clarinetist in the orchestra setting?
Harmony, which I personally like playing and singing more than melody.
2. What is the most important aspect of the relationship between the
first and second clarinetist?
Teamwork, in this case with the first player as 'captain.'
3. What are some things that the 2nd clarinetist should NEVER do in
a rehearsal? Consequently, what should the 2nd clarinetist ALWAYS
do?
I assume the same things as other players in the group.
4. Have you ever said or done anything in a rehearsal or concert
that you know now was a horrible faux pax... what would you suggest
to someone that finds themselves in a similar situation?
Only in trying to help someone who was fishing for compliments. I suggested an improvement when a compliment was wanted. Suggestion? wait until you know the player to see if they are fishing or looking for real help.
5. What is the importance of the 2nd clarinetist being able to play
on other instruments within the clarinet family?
With the attendance record in our ensemble I have found that I need to be able to cover all clarinet parts, since I show up.
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Author: david Dow
Date: 2002-10-12 13:17
I will second Greg Smith here!!!...2cd and internal harmonies are so important that woithout them the 1st parts make not a iota of sense. Without these integral parts then its quite a bore to play music. Nothing is better when two clarinets play a solo with lots of lovely 3rds and duet. My favorite is the Ravel duet it Rhapsodie Espagnole. Check it out!!!
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-10-12 14:30
Best to listen to Greg Smith. . .best 2nd clarinet player in the history of the business. . .in the best section man for man (or any other way you want to measure) yet to exist. A section which has not had a change in personnel in 19 years. The Pro's pro.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: DougR
Date: 2002-10-12 15:10
To Aussie Nick:
Yeah, it's a different "headspace" from playing solo or principal, and not to everyone's taste. But, as 2nd, you can have tremendous influence, and tremendous visibility in a weird kind of way. You can make good players sound better, and lesser players sound good, just by playing and blending well. Some even say it's a tougher chair than principal, because you have to be at least as good as the principal PLUS have heightened "blend chops" as well. Of course, there's less pressure, less visibility, and less glory. Less money, too, I suppose. But my constitution can handle that!!
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-10-12 15:31
Thanks surely David. The Cleveland Orchestra of the 50's, 60', and through '73 was the clarinetist's clarinet section as far as I'm concerned.
Gregory Smith
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-10-12 16:14
Greg Smith, surely you are modest.
Agree that CO section was a gem. Certainly the finest of its era and could easily hold its own today. Probably the most influential section as well.
But did it have 2 virtuoso bass clarinetists, 3 virtuoso eflat clarinetists and 3 virtuoso basset horn players among its four members?
Let's call it a tie?
Hattner
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-10-12 16:25
Hi,
As I recall, Al Zetzer was the bass clarinet for the Cleveland during that period. I heard him with the CO woodwind quintet doing a school visit program in the early 60s playing Bb soprano and he was no slouch. John Mack was the oboe and real gas as well.
Hank
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-10-12 16:41
Hank wrote:
>
> . John Mack was the oboe and real
> gas as well.
Still is according to the stories my son tells me (Mack is the woodwind sectional coach at CIM)
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-10-12 19:08
HAT -
Flexibility is a virtue.
In knowing that you won't take offense at this David....I am, generally speaking, uncomfortable comparing clarinet sections, at least in a "ranking" system per se. It's a little like trying to sort out what's the best orchestra kind of thing.
Gregory Smith
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-10-12 21:31
Actually, I agree with Greg Smith.
The reason I say it is simply the number of consecutive years that the CSO has maintained its quality, rather than comparing them to others that existed for shorter time periods or had numerous personnel changes.
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