 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Wan
Date: 2002-06-18 04:55
Ok, it looks like this; you've successfully made into the final round at the orchestra audition where the committee members finally take out the screening, unfortunately they notice you're palying on the Yamaha clarinet. And you're not hired. So is the rule?
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-06-18 11:27
How can you ever know that is the reason? After all there were several Buffet players who didn't make it either.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-18 14:30
When we go for job interviews or play formal symphonic concerts, we always dress "our very best" because appearance is a very influential aspect of what interviewers ascertain and audiences "hear." Dress to Impress, is the rule in the business community--and unfortunately, that often is the "rule" in the audition community as well. If you are playing on what "they" think is the "correct" brand of instrument, than you must sound better than someone who is not. Often, what one sees also affects what (and how) one hears. That is why all final auditions should be behind screens and completely anonimous--no background or experiance survey sheets, even though unsigned. Just be judged on how well you sound--period!!! To paraphraise the musical genious of Duke Elleington once more, "If you sound good (behind a screen, completely anonomous), you are good (no matter what instrument brand you are playing on)." Should be as simple as that--unfortunately, it often is not. Bottom line: choose for yourselves how you want to "play the auditin game" and, good luck.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-18 15:12
William wrote:
>
> That is why all
> final auditions should be behind screens and completely
> anonimous--no background or experiance survey sheets, even
> though unsigned.
I would disagree with the lack of background/experience sheets - while someone may play magnificently on the excerpts required, lack of requisite experience can be a real hindrance to effective performance. Perhaps not specifics, but years of orchestral/chamber music can be significant.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-06-18 16:24
Clarinet brand is rarely if ever a consideration in the finals of a professional audition. Possibly a consideration for a 2nd clarinet job, but that would depend on who the principal player is.
Certainly non-clarinet players on the audition committee couldn't care less.
David Hattner, NYC
By the way, are we talking about a specific audition here?
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2002-06-18 16:38
I have to agree with Mark here.
I am haging out a lot in the university music school. I know most of the players and who, to me, sound the best. Those don't always get the orchestra job. Auditions are definitely not the best way to evaluate a player. It might be the most efficient, but performing well at an audition does not always mean performing well in an orchestra setting.
There is such a thing as team spirit. The best player with a soloist attitude won't go very far in an orchestra. Yo have to blend when needed, hear what is around you and respond to what the Maestro is conveying through is conducting. None of this is apparent in an audition.
And regarding the clarinet maker. If it's a factor in the audition process then I would not want to work for that orchestra. It shows so much closed mindedness that it's better to stay away from those people.
Still I find it very hard to believe...
-Sylvain
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-06-18 17:33
What it really comes down to is that the "best" player will not necessarily win the audition -- it is the best player that fits. If they can not find that player, another audition is held. It's not the instrument, it's not whether you're male or female, it's not whether your clothes are well-coordinated -- it's what you do with the instrument and the music.
Remember that you're auditioning to join an already formed "club;" that's a pretty important aspect to who is selected in an audition. You might have a wonderful sound and impeccable musical instincts, but if your wonderful sound is bright and edgy, those in a woodwind section that tends toward the opposite might not look too kindly on you.
This is not to say that you should alter your playing in order to appease those on the other side of the screen -- one still has to be comfortable with ones own playing, of course, and believe in what they are doing -- but you have to understand the reality of any given situation.
No one ever said that life was fair.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-18 19:33
Mark--I agree with the premise that experiance is important, but my reservations are in informational sheets that ask questions that identify the player and remove the "fair chance" for everyone to be considered. For example, what new unknown player would stand a chance against a Larry Combs (easily identifiable via his answers), even though the "newer-younger-unknown" player might play his required excerpts better. My bias is based on a local orchestra audition (behind screen for principal clarinet) in which it was all too apparent that the search committe knew all along who they wanted to win. By the questions that were asked on the "background" survey we all filled out, our identies were all obvious to the audioners and the "favorite" was choosen--even though her performance was not the strongest (I know because I listened backstage) Another player--other than myself--played best and should have won. Just my feelings about "background surveys."
Sylvain and Larry--I also have always thought that one-time playing auditions were not the best way to select the most desirable player for a section position, Principal or otherwise. A better way might be to emulate the process by which conductors are often selected in having the prospective finalists each sit-in for a concert series to have their total performance strengths rated by the other regular orchestra members with whom they will have to play. There is so much more to being an effecttive orchestra member than just being able to play a few selected excerpts and the Mozart Concerto.
May all your auditions be totally fair and flawless (and truely anonymous)
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2002-06-18 20:08
What audition are we talking about now?
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Author: Aaron
Date: 2002-06-18 21:31
Wan is at UMKC so I'm suspecting it was the audition for the Kansas City Symphony, but i"m not sure of course. Alot of good things going on there clarient wise in Kansas City. Espically now with their new second clarinetist. The orchestra just gets stronger and stronger. Now the next thigs is the search for the new music director now that Anne Manson is leaving. It's odd. Both major orchestras in Missouri, Kansas City and St. Louis are both looking for a new music director. One because Anne is leaving, and St. Louis because Maestro Vonk has a dibilitating disease of the nerves. Hard times, but the music is just so good.
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-06-19 12:23
Unless some major/minor orchestras are literally holding "blind, open door, calling all cars" auditions, there's no such animal as a pure blind audition. We all know, professional auditions are 99% of the time by invitation only and the committee has already chosen they're candidates through resumes, (demo tapes if even required) and questionaires before a single note is played. And Larry is absolutely correct, it's the best player who "fits", especially if the desk is a section chair. Politics in the process? --that qualifies as a new thread in itself.
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Author: Dr. Jacob Mathias
Date: 2002-06-19 12:32
This type of product bias seems ridiculous...and if you sound good then no matter you should be given what is referred to as a probation period, which even people like Kell had on their first big gig. I guess if I went in at 75 with my 1010s they'd laugh me off the stage....oh well its refreshing knowing that predjeduicial thinking is the norm in life, as, in music, and humans like to erect barriers..now I'm being sarcatic!!!
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Author: Dr. Jacob Mathias
Date: 2002-06-19 12:35
When growing up we all thought in the 30s the Selmer Albert system had the greatest sound of any clarinet...Barney bigard lives forever!!!!!
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-06-19 13:27
Most auditions for professional orchestras are open, not invitation only. Some orchestras do limit by resume (Cleveland in particular) and many more by tape.
Certainly there have been auditions where candidates were favored to win by people in the orchestra. But there are plenty of examples where those people were not hired at the audition.
Basically, ya gotta play good. Time to look in the mirror and decide whether you REALLY deserved it.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-19 14:56
If my mirror is a true "reflction" on my clarinet abilities, then I will soon have a lot of clarinets for sale in the Classifieds. (Opps--it just cracked again!!)
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Author: Jabber
Date: 2002-06-19 18:01
I think it's kinda disheartening when someone wins an audition purely on connections alone. I've heard of a situation recently in which a player won the job only because the same chair was held by his previous teacher. Newayzzz.... that sorta bias is disheartening to say the least.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-06-19 21:01
You know, if you people are going to make these accusations, you should really give specifics. It's very easy to say "I heard about this time where. . ." etc. More than half the time the people who say things like that are at least partly mistaken and often way off base.
Have people gotten jobs on connections? Of course it has happened. It's rarer than some people here think. Sometimes 'connections' come from being a great player, in any case.
Best to practice scales everyday and be ready for the fair ones, which most auditions are.
Let's face it, non-clarinet players (who make up the majority of votes on any principal clarinet audition) are not terribly attuned to the subtleties of the clarinet sound, particularly regarding different brands of instruments. Playing a Yamaha (or whatever) is extremely unlikely to cost you an orchestral position.
What will cost you the position?
Less than perfect rhythm (every single time)
bad intonation (every single time)
inferior dynamic range (often)
inappropriate or unstylistc musical approach (most of the time)
An unattractive sound quality (often)
having a bad day (happens to everyone)
the committee messed up and screwed you in the first round (this does happen, but it's very very rare)
the committee preferred someone else (that's life)
the committee preferred someone else who has worked with them for the last year (well, that person obviously did what he/she had to do at work already)
David Hattner, NYC
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-20 03:28
Or, the auditionee is a pupil of one of the current players and tends to play in the style and manner <b>preferred</b> by the audition committee. I'll wager that's closer to the reality nowadays if screened auditions are held.
If you want to get into an orchestra that plays with a particular "sound", then playing with that "sound" in mind surely won't hurt and could possibly help.
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Author: clarman
Date: 2002-06-21 02:33
If you want to get into an orchestra that plays with a particular "sound", then playing with that "sound" in mind surely won't hurt and could possibly help. Said Mark Charette. But doesn't that make us communist clarinet players????? "the sound". Whatever, everyone should have their own sound, not what someone else is looking for.
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Author: gosh
Date: 2002-06-21 03:58
Then don't expect to get a job with an orchestra. You wouldn't expect Playboy to use you as a model if you were a 500 lbs. man with one arm. That's just not what they're looking for. An orchestra is looking for something specific and you have to conform to that if you want a job with them. If you want to be a model for Playboy, in the above case, you would have to start with a sex change and some reconstructive surgery or go for a different magazine.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-21 11:38
clarman wrote:
>
> If you want to get into an orchestra that plays with a
> particular "sound", then playing with that "sound" in mind
> surely won't hurt and could possibly help. Said Mark Charette.
> But doesn't that make us communist clarinet players????? "the
> sound". Whatever, everyone should have their own sound, not
> what someone else is looking for.
Then, as you find other people with the same ideas as you, you all end up forming an orchestra of like minded people ...
Get real. This is life. If all orchestras were mandated to "sound alike" you <b>might</b> have a point (but you wouldn't, really, since they all couldn't sound exactly alike), but they're not.
And, you might want to look up and find out what "communism" really is. There's a big gap between theory and practice (as there is in most forms of government ...).
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-06-22 13:16
Mr. Hattner is right and I stand corrected. Most major/minor orchestra auditions are open to the public. I was specifically referring to Cleveland (which he pointed out) and Boston who are/were auditioning a new oboist by resume only. Also, it stands to reason if one achieves a level of playing that they can alter their tone to match an orchestra clar section they're auditioning for, then they can also change it BACK on the next breath (or know what equipment to use to get it to that tone)...it's no big deal. Either you want the job you're applying for and make the necessary adjustments to get it or you don't.
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Author: eduard vanderGraf
Date: 2002-06-24 13:07
ITS REALLY A SHAME, LIFE IS SO SHORT......adjusting to a playing situation a audtion tells you nothing about whether or not a jerk you hired is like to work with or not,
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