 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jim A
Date: 2002-05-26 00:40
I have an older Evette & Schaeffer Master Model with a problem. It was recently worked on locally, then by a very good tech in the Seattle area, but this problem still plagues me.
Say I am playing the 4th line D, all fingers down except pinkies. As I increase the pressure with the right hand fingers the tone just stops. This takes more than the normal playing pressure but less than really cinching down. Something similar also happens frequently when making a desperation grab with the right hand from (for example) G to C or B.
I would not put it past being something I am doing wrong (like the grab, which I am working on) but I have played on several other clarinets recently that do not have this problem. I would like to think that this is something mechanical and can get it fixed.
Any ideas on what would cause this to happen?
Thanks, Jim
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-05-26 01:46
Why do you feel you need to use more than 'normal' finger pressure, Jim? It wastes energy and accomplishes nothing. Relax and make your playing fun, not hard work
I'd suggest, first of all, that you continue to work on the 'grabbing' issue. Then, if the problem continues, take it back to the shop for a checkup.
To echo Monica's question, I too would like to know what a desperation grab is :| Sounds like an attack of stage fright vertigo or something.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-05-26 01:57
Check to make sure the Ab/Eb key rod has not backed out. Secondly, make sure the pad is seating properly. Next, make sure that you are not accidentally hitting the alt B key with your RH ring finger. You could be accidentally opening it just enough to make the clarinet stop playing. I have a Selmer Balanced Tone. My fingers are large and if I'm not careful I can accidentally bump this key a little and nothing below A/E will speak.Perhaps positioning the key touchpiece one way or the other will help.
I had a customer with this problem after he played and Eb or low Ab. Turns out that the key didn't have side to side play, but the diameter of the key where the key rod (steel) goes through had worn enough that the key was wobbling slightly and would not seat the same place each time. The solution was to make a slightly oversize rod to replace the original one. I find this is not uncommon in clarinets with the softer German silver keys.
Good luck. I hope you find the problem.
jbutler
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Author: Jim A
Date: 2002-05-26 02:34
Thanks for the help. Monica, a desperation grab is where I am playing along like a clam at high tide, then discover "holy [explitive deleted], the next note is a C which causes a reflexive grab with my right hand. I'm getting better.
I was also just thinking about this problem after I wrote the post. My daughter and I were both playing in the local concert band this winter. She was using her mother's clarinet which has not seen the light of day for 25 year, let alone any maintenance, and has a barrel joint crack that I fixed some years ago with electrical tape. (I am not making this up). She ask to try my E&S but gave it back after a day or two as it didn't work as well as her mother's. That is what leads me to think that there might be something mechanical wrong. Guess I will just have to take it back to the tech when I get to Seattle next. Thanks.
Jim
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-05-26 04:42
This is a puzzler. If the problem is that you are accidentally pressing another key on the lower joint, the reason you don't have the problem with other clarinets may simply be a slight difference in key design. I suppose that it is also possible that when you press too hard one of your fingers lifts off a tone hole slightly.
Since the music is stopping completely, I think the problem could be on the upper joint. Here are a couple of things you might try. First of all, try to make the problem happen. When it does, blow harder and identify which note ("squeak") plays. If you can do this, you should have an idea of where the leak is (I think it has to be a leak of some sort) because all the holes above the leak will be covered.
And now for something completely from left field (it's late enough that my daughter is asleep so I can't try to create the situation) but who knows? How hard are you pressing the keys with your LEFT hand when the problem occurs? The next time the problem happens try gripping harder with the left hand and see if the D returns.
When you are playing a D, assuming you are not accidentally pressing something on the lower joint, you are covering the tone holes with your fingers and closing one pad at the top of the lower joint. You are also raising the bridge mechanism. This mechanism in turn lowers a ring on the upper joint. It looks possible to me that, if your "grip" is loose on the upper joint and/or you don't have all the upper tone holes (particularly the one under your middle finger) covered really well, that when you press the lower rings really hard, you may be lowering the UPPER joint middle finger ring just enough to create a small gap between your finger and the tone hole. Having the thickness of the cork on the bridge mechanism adjusted slightly might alleviate the problem if this is what's happening. (Another way to check for this problem would be to rotate the lower joint far enough to disengage the bridge mechanism and then see if you can still create the problem.) I put a fairly low probability on this as the problem but it's probably worth checking out.
Best of luck,
jnk
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-05-26 16:27
Jack, great detective work and interesting even if it's not the culprit this time....Jim: will be interested for later results
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-05-26 17:18
I'm astonished! It's informative and quality information like this that sets this BB above anything I could anticipate. Let's be sure and thank all our expert responders. Thanks folks.
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Author: Jim A.
Date: 2002-05-27 19:20
Thank you all for your replies and especially to Jack Kissinger for his thoughtfull analysis. After a very close examination of the clarinet as suggested, here is what I believe to have been the problem.
Me.
In a nutshell, I find that my body is now larger than when I was playing in college some 40 years ago. This has affected my arm and hand position such that both hands tend to rotate slightly up toward the top of the instrument, resulting in the rh ring finger unknowingly grazing the alt B key. Now I can work on this too as I practice.
Jim
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-05-27 21:18
To give credit where due, Jim, the ring finger grazing the alt B key was one of jbutler's diagnoses. Glad to hear you have apparently found the culprit. (BTW, I know about the larger body thing. :^( )
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: david dow
Date: 2002-05-29 12:45
Sounds like the low g# spring isn't tight enough, so when you apply alot of air pressure the pad actually opens off the tone hole.
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Author: Blake
Date: 2002-05-29 16:32
A player in my band had a similar problem and it turned out to be a missing cork on the bridge between the upper/lower joints... also can be from it not being properly aligned. This is particularly common on bass clarinets. Blake
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