 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: E. Michael Blake
Date: 2002-02-28 20:02
I recently obtained a wood clarinet for the first time in my life. I played clarinet and sax in school, never became particularly good, moved on to other pursuits, and now, thirty years later, I've taken up woodwinds again. I got what I think was a good deal on a used Leblanc Noblet. My old clarinet was plastic, so I have only vague awareness that a wood clarinet needs to have bore oil applied once in a while. The seller warned me that going overboard could be hazardous, because the oil can mess up the pads, and he said that Leblanc makes a swab soaked in bore oil that could be used perhaps once or twice a month, caring for the wood without endangering the rest of the instrument. Unfortunately, I haven't found any such swab, and at one store a check of the Leblanc catalog turned up nothing. Does anyone know of a swab like this, or of some other way for a neophyte to apply bore oil responsibly? I'd appreciate any tips; this bulletin board has already been very illuminating and informative to me, just from random perusals.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-02-28 21:39
You might best be advised to visit your local repairwoman/man and have a chat ... the use of oil on clarinets is good, but must be done with great care - enjoy your clarineting (a LeBlanc! - they surely make nice instruments).
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-02-28 22:01
If you do decide to oil the bore of your instrument (you will hear pros and cons / for and against) I suggest that you use one of the natural products offered by "The Doctor's Products". Use the sponsor link at the top of the page and you will help support this bulletin board as well.
Many of us swear by (not swear at) the products (oils and lubricants) marketed by "The Doc". Read his web site for more info and also do a search on this board for more testimonial than you will be able to read.
In the long run, it is VERY CHEAP insurance. Go for it..GBK
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-02-28 22:01
Hi, Michael
Glad you're here. Woodwinds have a way of sorta 'getting in your blood', I know. Been there too. Welcome back!
The only oil soaked swab I'm aware of is the one in a jar in my workroom. I know it's oil soaked because I did it myself. 'Soaked' is really a misleading term. I squeeze enough bore oil from a plastic bottle to dampen the yarn. I keep it in the jar between uses so it won't get oil on anything else. I do this only because I'm likely to re-pad several instruments a year. An 'average' player shouldn't have to bother with that.
I usually apply a little oil to wood horns before repadding them, during servicing, or before complete a overhaul. In anticipation of doing some wood instruments this summer I definitely plan to use some of The Doctor's Products. Click on Sponsors at top of page. Doc's Products are highly recommended by others here involved with repair or those who enjoy servicing their own instruments. See other posts about corks and stuff, not too far down from here. Be sure you don't over-oil. Just a moderate film is adequate. More just makes a mess to clean up. Additionally, the wood will continue to 'sweat' during hot weather for a long time if you over do it.
The object is to let the wood absorb oil to a degree it will not come off on the pads. Let it set for a couple of days after oiling. Wipe off excess. The seller was quite correct about that. Oily pads are a nuisance that can and most likely will cause problems - they attract dirt and grime (yucky) and tend to become sticky. It shortens their lifespan :( That's why most shops recommend oiling only when the horn is stripped down for servicing or repair. We all hope that's infrequently. It's enough.
You can also moisten a chamois swab and run that through the bore occasionally if it makes you feel better. Personally, I wouldn't bother.
You're bound to get lots more answers to a very unklutzy question. It seems we all need to be reminded now and then not to go overboard
:]
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Author: DaKid556
Date: 2002-02-28 23:59
This is just a thing I do myself when I oil my clarinet:
Try putting pieces of paper between the pads and the wood and wrapping a rubber band around the clarinet to keep the oil from getting onto the pads.
By the way, I use the LeBlanc too. Try to get the combination key oil and bore oil kit. That is of course if that's the one you picked up.
Good luck!:)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-01 02:21
We've discussed bore oil a lot - check out the threads.
One good rule of thumb for bore oil is - if it is uncolored and clear is is probably light mineral (petroleum based) oil. Don't spend the money, just go to the pharmacy and buy a bottle of baby oil and you'll get 100 times as much for the same price. Some big name companies also may give you the added feature of volatile petroleum distillates (charcoal lighter) to make the product appear to absorb into the wood. Any wood expert will tell you that mineral oil is not friendly to wood in the long term. Question ???? - if mineral oil is a good oil for wood - why do the instrument manufacturers not use it to impregnate the wood before instrument manufacture instead of the plant derived oils which they routinely use - and, why don't they just sell the plant derived oil used to impregnate the wood as bore oil ????
99.9% of the key oil sold by the big name companies has no anti-rust or anti-corrosive additatives and is another form of mineral oil fraction (light machine oil) that leaves a varnish like residue upon evaporation. In the same vein, oils with teflon additatives are not appropriate because they leave a sludge of teflon particles which can actually impair the movement of the keywork when the oil vehicle evaporates. Spend the small amount of extra money and get a good grade of clock repair oil (some repair experts use different oils of varying viscosity for different segments of the mechanisms), or some of the new synthetic oils with additative and which leave no residue upon evaporation.
The Doctor
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-01 14:44
To bore or not to bore...I really enjoy reading much of the lore on the care of clarinets in these pages and I always appreciate finding out that I'm not as smart as I think I am. I approach the "oiling" of my wood clarinets as a wood craftsman and restorer.
As such I favor Tung oil which hasn't hurt my grandfathers' clocks yet or my clarinets. In my opinion oiling can be done carefully enough(aka done properly) so one doesn't even have to worry about getting any on the pads. Not all clarinet technicians abhor mineral oil but that doesn't prove it's the best oil to use. Certainly a beginner at the grade school level may not have the same sensibility regarding the care of his horn as a pro and so must be cautioned appropriately.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-03-01 15:05
Doctor Henderson:
I have been meaning to ask you about the use of waxes on wood. Each of two people who seem to know plenty about furniture advised me that the use of oils on quality furniture is a mistake. They have recommended the very infrequent use of wax instead. Seems to me those super long-chain molecules would pretty much seal the surface of the wood. Could this be desirable?
Regards,
John
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Author: William
Date: 2002-03-01 15:24
Who Knows Who is Right???? Some say "yes", others "no." My personal experiance over a lifetime of clarineting has been one of "no oil, no problems." I've never run an oil swab through the bore of any of my Selmers, Buffets, Yamaha or Leblancs and have never had any shrinkage or cracking problems with any of my nine clarinets, ever. But then again, maybe I have just been lucky. I am always careful to swab my instruments twice and thoroughly clean the tendon sleeves after each use--but for oiling, I've never really worried about it. But--"and the beat goes on"--there will always be controversy regarding this issue. It is too bad that someone did not start a "controlled" study of oiling bores or not some years ago. That would provide some real difinative answers, unlike all of our personal experiances and specualtions. To Oil, or Not To Oil--a very good question!!!!! Good Clarineting
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-01 16:05
Dear John and all,
Fine wood furniture and wood clarinets have a lot in common but there are also differences. I feel that wood clarinets are a living, breathing system (although the wood is obviously no longer growing and metabolizing). Fine wood furniture should be oiled at some point to restore the moisture balance in the wood and then is often sealed with wax to prevent moisture loss and preserve the integregity of the surface and tightness of the joints. Clarinets also need to maintain a certain moisture content but must also be able to expell excess moisture to maintain a proper moisture balance. We constantly force warm, moist air through the bore of the clarinet (unlike fine antique furniture which should be maintained in a temperature and humidity controlled setting), and unless there is a proper oil balance in the first few millimeters of the wood on the inside of the bore there can be an excess accumulation of moisture and also a rapid loss (because the oil buffers the flux of water) when the instrument is subjected to drying conditions.
If we could start off with a proper moisture balance in the wood and then seal it completely and be sure of this constant seal then perhaps this technique would work with clarinets (however in this process we may permanently block the pores and channels of the wood). The plant derived oils used to impregnate the wood during manufacture however interact with water and are washed away, and wiped away with swabbing, etc. leading to a loss of oil in the top few millimeters of the wood in the bore (if it is unsealed, and IMHO should be replaced).
A better approach in my humble opinion is to let the wood breathe - absorb and expell excess moisture through the functional pores and channels in the wood structure. As long as these pores and channels are functional - not blocked or clogged with petroleum based oil plugs, wax, polymer forming agents (e.g. linseed oil, tung oil, etc.) - then the wood will maintain a controlled moisture content (buffered by the properties of the plant derived oils). Once many of these pores and channels are blocked then areas that are incompletely sealed (wax wears off or is incompletely applied, clogged pores and channels) will absorb differential amounts of moisture. This condition is the worst of all worlds because you end up with areas that are wet and those that are dry (sealed, plugged) in comparison and this can lead to huge hydrostatic pressure differentials in adjacent areas - promoting the potential of cracking.
Properly oiled wood has survived (even under large temperature and humidity variations - prior to our modern inventions of air conditioning and central heating in museums) for several thousand years (e.g. wooden implements in perfect condition- treated with plant oils- from stone age cave dwellings, wooden pegs at Stonehenge, wooden ritual and religious artifacts from Egyptian tombs, burial sarcophagi through the ages, etc.).
Another approach is to use some of the newer waxes that form plates stacked upon one another which exclude water droplets but not the exchange of water vapor. These wax plates cover but do not block the pores and channels in the wood structure. This type of wax is used by many wood conservation experts at the major museums (Smithsonian, New York Museum, The British Museum, Vatican Museum, Louvre, etc.) to protect antique wood artifacts. I support this approach for the outside of the woodwind instrument (I still prefer the proper oiling of the bore however) once a proper cleaning of the surface is done (these museums also use similar cleaning solutions prior to wax application - many water based cleaning solutions will raise the grain of the wood). Sorry to be so long-winded.
The Doctor
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Author: Michael
Date: 2002-03-01 16:18
are you ctually a Doctor?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-01 16:53
Just facts - no horn tooting
Lloyd Omar Henderson, BS (Chemistry), MS (Analytical Chemistry), MSx2 (Chemical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering), Ph.D. (Chemistry), MG (Master Gardener), novice clarinet player - antique furniture refinisher, university professor, U.S. Govt. research chemist, and most importantly - student for life!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-03-01 19:20
Omar wrote:
----------
Properly oiled wood has survived (even under
large temperature and humidity variations -
prior to our modern inventions of air
conditioning and central heating in museums) for
several thousand years (e.g. wooden implements
in perfect condition- treated with plant oils-
from stone age cave dwellings, wooden pegs at
Stonehenge, wooden ritual and religious
artifacts from Egyptian tombs, burial sarcophagi through the ages, etc.).
---------
Just a nit:
The wooden pegs at Stonehenge and possibly a few of the other items above didn't survive because they were oiled, but because they were buried in a non-reducing medium (very little if any free oxygen). Cloth has survived in peat bogs for thousands of years for this reason (and because of other properties of peat). The Egyption artifacts were protected by the climactic conditions; indeed, some of the wooden artifacts are rotting in museums today.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-01 20:43
Dear Mark,
You have valid points that are well taken but these were used as general examples of age (maybe inappropriately) - more specific examples are:
I have viewed:
African hardwood artifacts - oiled with plant oils (as verified by the museum conservator) and exposed to great heat and humidity for the first 2100 years since creation, on exhibit in perfect shape, 700 year old wood altars in churches (where the caretaker, and 15 generations before him have used plant oils on the wood), 2500 year old wooden bowls constantly soaked in plant oils, corks from amphora in emperor Hadrians villa containing plant oil and sealed with bee's wax that were in perfect shape and still compressable (the wax probably kept out oxidation by air - granted, but the oils did not destroy the wood-cork structure), wooden decorative boxes - impregnated with plant oils (as tested by the museum staff) in everday use for 500 years, beautifully preserved pre-Colombian wood ritual statuary and weapon handles (stored in damp caves) which were treated with plant oils. The British Museum and the Vatican Museum continue to treat wooden artifacts with various mixtures of plant derived oils (this is part of the research which lead to my developing common threads of the types of oils, antioxidants, and other compounds used for centuries in wood preservtion), proprietary cleaning agents which remove grime and reopen natural pores and channels in the wood, and special wax formulations to let the wood "breathe". All of these examples are anechdotal but historical records using plant derived oil mixtures for wood preservation, and my own research are not.
The Doctor
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Author: Al
Date: 2002-03-01 21:56
Dear Mr. Blake,
Leave the thing alone. It's lasted this long. Just keep it dry and away from extreme temperature changes.
Al
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-01 22:33
I once had a professor who maintained that everything boiled down to statistics and economics. I don't know which category this subject falls under. I wonder, Doctor Henderson, what your opinion is on the use of tung oil for bore oiling. I certainly have a good opinion regarding beeswax and olive oil and respect your eternal quest for knowledge.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-03-02 01:47
Dear Bob and all,
I do not like tung oil or linseed oil for oiling bores because these form a varnish like finish often used in the past on furniture. These form polymers and crosslink much as the newer polyurathane finishes (only more slowly - but also surely). Again, I am of the opinion that the wood should "breathe" and do it's own job of water regulation rather than forcing an impermeable membrane finish to stop water access and egress. The polymerizing oils also permanently plug the pores and channels of the surface wood structure and may lead to the situation mentioned before where and incompletely sealed surface can absorb a lot of water next to a sealed surface portion causing a large hydrostatic pressure differential between the two adjacent areas. Surface treatments for wood furniture are not necessarily good for woodwind instruments. We should all weigh the available information and make our own decisions - To Oil or Not To Oil!
The Doctor
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-03-02 15:21
Thanks Doc and I respect your opinion. Another theory,though,is that if you seal the wood then water can't enter it. Personally, I don't see why clarinet wood should have to be able to breathe....i.e. absorb and evaporate water but I'm certainly open to new ideas.
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Author: E. Michael Blake
Date: 2002-03-02 16:21
To everyone who responded to my posting, many thanks. Anyone who wants to continue this thread is welcome to do so, but you needn't do it on my account. I think I've gleaned what I need to know. Since I'm a hobbyist, playing mainly for my own enjoyment and to jam with my son (piano, string bass) and wife (dulcimer, recorder, ukulele, and other devious instruments), it looks like the best approach for me is to dry the clarinet meticulously after playing (which I do already), and then on those occasions when the clarinet may need a repair or overhaul, ask the tech to see if the bore needs oiling. (Al tersely advised, "Leave the thing alone," and I'll at least follow that as it applies to me personally.) In deference to the Doctor, I'd ask for plant oils. I have a bachelor's degree in physics, so I've been able to follow what he said, and I can see the importance of upholding both the suppleness and ductility of the wood and its acoustic properties. Thanks again, one and all.
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Author: Martha E
Date: 2002-03-04 01:04
Now, another question about oiling ...
Are there any natural products available for oiling a clarinet that do NOT contain nut oils? My son's severely allergic to almonds and peanuts, and most of the products I've read about (other than the regular "bore oil" sold in music stores) have either almond or peanut oil in them.
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2002-03-06 17:27
I don't believe anyone has mentioned this yet in this thread. With respect to the original question about a special swab that oils the bore, Jack Brymer, in his book, mentions that some people use a chamois swab and that the natural oils in that (chamois is deer skin, right?)are adequate to do the minimal oiling that might be needed.
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