 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2002-02-14 01:43
Hopefully I will join (or try to join) the Miami Orchestra (a college orchestra here in Miami Ohio (not Florida)) next semester, and I was wondering, do I need to get an A clarinet? For that matter, do I need to get a bass clarinet, or an Eb clarinet and alto? Or is just a Bb and an A and maybe a bass good enough for a college orchestra?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2002-02-14 02:21
If you're serious about being an orchestral clarinetist - then yes, my advice to you is get an A.
You might be able to pick up a nice one second hand, will save you money. Look as sneezy's sponsors page - might give you some ideas.
As to the others, well ... - possibly not yet - wait until you win lottery
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-02-14 02:26
You may want to wait to see what you would be playing in the orchestra. You may be asked to play just bass clarinet or only Bb and A clarinet parts. The school very likely owns bass and Eb clarinets that you can use and possibly an A as well. Whether or not you purchase any of these instruments should probably depend on what your future plans are. If plan on playing in orchestras after college you particularly will want to get an A clarinet, after that you may want to get a bass and then an Eb. I don't think you will need an alto for orchestra, but perhaps some of those alto clarinet lovers out there can tell you about that.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sylvain
Date: 2002-02-14 02:38
Yes you need an A clarinet toplay in orchestra.
If the school does not lend or rent you one. You shoudl probably invest.
And think of it as an investment.
A used A R13 that's 20 years old can be sold at least 1000USD, I am sure the price 20 years ago was little more than 200$...
You'll also finally be able some beautiful music (Mozart cto & quintet, Brahms quintet, Stravinsky 3pieces..)on the right clarinet and that to me is priceless.
As far as the bass is concern I would not invest unless you have a lot of money and/or you really love this instrument.
-Sylvain
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-14 15:46
Joel,
You should understand that when you ask this bulletin board a question, you are going hear mostly from folks who are really gung ho about the clarinet. If you follow the bulletin board regularly, you will see that recommendations regarding equipment generally tend toward "more (and usually more expensive) is better (necessary)." IMHO, the advise is well-intentioned but often ignores such economic considerations as cost/benefit.
You have asked if you NEED an A clarinet to play in the university orchestra at Miami of Ohio. IMHO, the best person to answer that question is the person (probably faculty member) who conducts the orchestra. Ask (1) whether s/he thinks an A clarinet is necessary and (2) how many of the clarinetists in the past there have had one. My guess, unless the university has some loaners, is that the answers will be (1) "no" and (2) "only a few," if any. This is also just a guess (based on what I have observed at colleges and universities where I have been) but I suspect that the great majority of students playing clarinet in college and university orchestras around the country don't own an A and the ones that do are concentrated at schools recognized for premier music programs.
There is a considerable amount of orchestral literature that calls for an A clarinet. However, most university orchestras only put on a couple of concerts a year so you have plenty of time to prepare and, with some practice, you should be able to learn to transpose most of what you will encounter at sight or to write out transpositions for parts that are too difficult or go by too fast to transpose at sight. IMHO, developing good transposition skill is an important part of a clarinetist's training. (If nothing else, it will prepare you for those nasty Russian (and other) composers that insist on writing for bass clarinet in A or for that inevitable moment in later life when your A clarinet breaks down or you miss a minuscule "en La" marking and wind up with the wrong clarinet in your hands -- just when you have an important solo.)
An A clarinet is essential to a professional orchestral clarinetist (except, perhaps in Italy ;^) ). For just about anyone else, I think it is a luxury. It's a fun toy. It can make your life easier. Others who have one won't look down on you. Some who don't have one will be in awe. But, unless the conductor says otherwise, it's probably not a necessity. My $.02
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-14 16:14
Sylvain,
I think your estimate of the price of an R13 A 20 years ago is a bit on the low side. A new R13 A clarinet cost around $450 at Mark's Music in 1969. (I paid $250 for a store demo.) I wasn't looking for an A clarinet 20 years ago but, when I priced R13 Eb clarinets at Fred Weiner's sometime between 1981 and 1985, they were running around $950. An A would have been a bit less in those days but probably at least $750. As far as an investment is concerned, $750 invested at 6% 20 years ago would have grown to a bit more than $2400 today -- BTW, more than enough to buy a new R13 A clarinet, a Chadash or Moennig barrel, a new Greg Smith mouthpiece, and some lessons. Of course, you couldn't take the investment out and play it ...
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LynnB
Date: 2002-02-14 16:39
Just for the record, I bought my A clarinet new in 1983 for around $1200.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fran
Date: 2002-02-14 18:21
I am soooo glad you asked this question Joel!
I am just a beginner, but my goal is to be able to play with a community group as soon as possible. There's a community orchestra that encourages anyone to come down and play without the need to audition first. It is based at a local college.
I was just worried that for an orchestra I would need an A clarinet, too. So based on Jack's answer, I think I can get along without it.( I'd like to learn to transpose though, and this could motivate me to do so.)
I just love this bulletin board! I learn so much!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-02-14 19:50
Yes, yes, yes, you need an A. You might try a Buffet E-11 A model. You can get one new for a very reasonable price. Then if you don't do well in orchestra, or switch to a different instrument later down the road you won't have invested as much in an A clarinet. Try calling International Musical Suppliers (800-762-1116) and see what they're quoting on prices on these. Oh, and I highly recommend getting a Chaddash barrel with it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gretchen
Date: 2002-02-15 15:08
I'm a freshman, and made my university orchestra and am SO glad that i bought my A clarinet last year. I have used it to play more of the music we're playing in orch. than my Bb. I would definately recommend you getting one - either that...or renting one. maybe the school has one that you could use?
Our school has a bass clarinet and an Eb clarinet to use if you need it. But if you're thinking of being a professional clarinetist anyway, you might as well buy one now...you'll use it in the future.
good luck!
Gretchen
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-16 16:17
Joel,
From the parenthetical data after your name in your question, I conclude that you are currently a student at Miami of Ohio. Also, from other posts you have made, I assume you are an enthusiastic amateur not anticipating a professional career at this time. I found that your school has a very nice web site and I did some searching there. Having located the symphony conductor's e-mail address, I sent him a message asking your question a couple of days ago. So far, he has not responded. If he does, I'll post his answer. While I still think he is the only one who can provide you with a definitive answer to your question, I now think his answer may very well be yes. (If you talk to him, please let us know what he says.)
As you undoubtedly know (but other followers of this board may not), Miami has a separate School of Fine Arts and takes this area very seriously. I see that the clarinet teacher there is Michele Gingras, an outstanding clarinetist and musician of international stature. I note that she has several students in her studio and I expect that at least some (though not necessarily all) of them are preparing for a professional career. It's a good bet that, unless the conductor likes to carry double winds, the symphony clarinetists are serious members of her studio and therefore may have A clarinets. (This is by no means a certainty, however. Many of Larry Maxie's serious students at the University of Kansas, including some who played in the orchestra there, have not owned A clarinets and became quite adept at transposition.) As an aside, I didn't see your name listed among her students. I don't know how tuition works at Miami but, often at universities, studio fees for private lessons from outstanding teachers can be a real bargain for a full-time student. If that's the case where you are, you might consider some lessons from her. After you graduate, you may never have such a great opportunity -- but I digress.
As far as I can tell from the calendar, your orchestra plays about four concerts a year. I couldn't find alot of program listings but the program on the last concert included the Weber overture to "Der Freischutz," the Shostakovich 9th Symphony and a Beethoven Piano Concerto. All the excerpts for the Weber in my excerpts book are for Bb clarinet, the Shostakovich calls for Bb and A. One of the A excerpts looks fairly easy to sight transpose, the other I, at least, would have to write out if I didn't have an A. An A would be beneficial but one could likely do the piece without it. I don't have an excerpt or part for the Beethoven. Assuming it calls for clarinet, it may well call for A and Bb and quite possibly for a C clarinet as well. (Do you have one of those, Gretchen? If not, do you intend to buy one the first time your part calls for it? Or will you transpose?)
Joel, I still believe that an A clarinet would be a luxury for you right now, given that you aren't in the orchestra, that the orchestra apparently performs relatively few concerts each year with plenty of preparation time, and that not only is it possible to transpose A parts but, in fact, some publishers now provide alternate parts for Bb clarinet (I have recently seen such parts for a Beethoven symphony, Prokofiev's "Lieutenant Kije" Suite and a suite from Humperdink's "Hansel and Gretel").
Regarding Brenda's recommendation (and, you might notice she didn't give any reasons to support her opinion but she did say "yes" three times to my one "no" so perhaps that counts for something), the last published price I could find for an E11 A in an International catalog was $850 and that was an old catalog. Add about $100 for a Chadash barrel. (I'm surprised Brenda didn't also recommend a $175-$200 Greg Smith or Charles Bay mouthpiece into the bargain. She frequently does.) We're talking around $1,000 here for an instrument that you don't even have a certain venue for yet. But then Brenda brokers clarinets. (Dave Spiegelthal also sells them, BTW. I'm not saying that their beliefs are not sincere or that anyone is trying to sell you something here but, whether they realize it or not, they are certainly planting seeds.)
If money is not an issue, you'd like a new toy, you already have a good Bb and you far prefer orchestra to band or jazz combo, then go ahead and get yourself an A. If I were you, however, I'd wait until I was sure I would have someplace to play it enough to make the expenditure worthwhile. If you follow clarinets on eBay, you will see that, quite often, when a A clarinet comes up for sale, the seller indicates that, despite its age, it doesn't appear to have been played much or that it's being sold because the seller doesn't have any more use for it. Many places don't have community orchestras. Often you will be competing with pros for a seat when you do find one. Also, I wouldn't buy a new E11 from International. If you are patient and careful, you should be able to find a (very) gently used 20-40 year old professional Leblanc or Selmer A on eBay for $600 -- $800.
Owning a bass clarinet or eefer likely won't increase your chances of making the orchestra (though being able to play one of them really well might). The music department probably provides them, when necessary -- which is probably not all that often. There may be an orchestral work somewhere that calls specifically for an alto clarinet but I've never heard of it. One might use an alto to play basset horn parts, transposing down a half-step, but there aren't alot of orchestral works out there that require basset horn.
As I look at the replies to your question, I see that most respondents have said that you need an A clarinet. While a couple have indicated that it's more convenient, I don't see anyone who has given a good reason why it is NECESSARY. Perhaps that's because the only good reason it's necessary is that the conductor requires/expects it (and the school doesn't provide it). The only person who can give you that reason, however, is the conductor. If you haven't already talked to him, give him a call. From the info on the University's web site, he sounds like a neat guy.
One last point. Please don't misunderstand my earlier comments to indicate that I don't think you have a chance of making the orchestra. In my experience, if you are a decent player, you have a very good chance. Some of Michele Gingras' students (and even possibly all of them) may have no interest in playing in the orchestra (their interests may lie elsewhere or they may have other commitments or they may prefer to play a different instrument in orchestra) and, if you prepare, you might beat them, anyway.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-16 16:25
Oops,
I said "One might use an alto to play basset horn parts, transposing down a half-step." I should have said transposing UP a half-step.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-20 03:18
Joel,
I just heard back from the orchestra conductor at Miami U. He tells me that you do NOT need to buy an A clarinet to join the orchestra. He said that the University can provide one for use in the orchestra. You probably should check with him to be sure but I think that means that all you will need to audition is your Bb.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
