 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John Gibson
Date: 2001-10-09 20:19
Everyone professes that the Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer, Yamaha are THE clarinets to have. Why not Boosey & Hawkes? The 2-20? Or the Symphoney 10-10?
Are these not very good? I saw both of the examples listed and thought they looked very well made. Have not played either one, but am interested in their craftsmanship and wonder if they are good "horns" or not?
John
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Author: Bob Rausch
Date: 2001-10-09 20:33
In my opinion what makes a good clarinet is the sound. Now, people also compare on the basis of looks, feel, weight, etc. The Big 4 have name brand recogition. I know for a fact Selmer and Yamaha make other instruments in addition to clarinets which gives them more exposure on the market.
Now this does NOT mean other clarinets are not good horns. On the contrary. However, its hard to break into the market when your going up against instrument makers that dominate the marketplace.
You have to decide what works well for you ? Some people even compare horns on the basis of when they were made. I know in particular many people think Buffet Clarinets made in the late 1970's are considered to be better than ones made today. (Something to do with the woods available during that time).
My point is you will have to judge for yourself. The Big 4 have name-brand recognition in the market and that is why they are so popular.
My only piece of advice is to compare woods with woods and resonites with resonites.
Bob
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-10-09 21:01
I don't believe Boosey & Hawkes makes clarinets anymore! Their Buffet division is the only clarinet producer.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-10-09 21:13
Basically the Big 4 are recommended since they are easy to find and they are all known to produce quality horns. They are all in production so both new and used horns are available.
Now there is nothing wrong with Boosey and Hawkes except that they no longer produce clarinets under this name or of the style (large "English" style bore) for which they were known. They purchased Buffet lock, stock, and barrel. The Buffets are made in the same factories as before the purchase with the same tools, craftsmen, Buffet design standards, etc.
So basically one could categorize things like this.
Big Four (Leblanc, Selmer, Buffet, Yamaha)
- Known to be of good quality
- Currently in business
- Complete product lines from beginner through pro grades
- Readily available to prospective buyers
Reputable custom makers (Rossi, Eaton, etc)
- Makers of quality products
- Currently in business
- Generally produce only pro horns
- Not easy to find for average buyers
Junk horns (Chinese & Indian imports and perhaps some others)
- Cheap
- Shoddy quality in construction
- Problems with intonation
Other makers currently in business (UMI, etc)
- Variable quality. Some ok and some bad but none as good as the Big Four
- Costs almost as much as the Big Four
- Many of these have substandard tuning characteristics.
Out of business companies (Penzel Muller, Pruefer, Boosey & Hawkes, etc)
- Many companies have come and gone. Some good and some bad. Some of them no doubt rivalled the Big Four in quality but as long as some have been out of business, it gets harder and harder to find some one with personal knowledge of the quality and reputation of these firms. Of course repair techs can evaluate the general construction and a player can evaluate the playing characteristics. That should be enough to make a buy/no buy decision.
- A great deal of research and trial may be required to assess the quality of the instrument design and construction. There are some real values but there are a lot of dogs too.
- Often very low prices.
- On the other hand some sellers inflate the prices since no one has ever seen a "Podunk Hooter" so they think its scarcity makes it valuable.
- Often need significant overhauls since we are dealing solely with used instruments here.
Horns by the out of business makers can be quite a good value if one can take the time and effort to do the research needed to find and refurbish a quality horn.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-10-09 21:29
Mark is right. And Boosey hasn't produced clarinets for many years (possibly 30 or 40 but I'm guessing here) so if you find one, it will have some age on it and not incorporate recent design improvements. The 1010 is an older professional model. If you find one, it probably dates from the middle of the 20th century or before. There were some very good English clarinetists in those days, some of whom would have played the 1010. I don't think it was ever overwhelmingly popular in the U.S., possibly because it was a large bore instrument. The 2-20 is, if memory serves, a (plastic, from the ones I've seen on eBay) student model from near the end of Boosey's clarinet-producing years (60's or 70's?). According to a recent article in "The Clarinet," Reginald Kell was involved in it's design and the series was (again, if memory serves) intended for the U.S. market. Also according to the article, however, Kell believed that Boosey cut some corners and did not implement all his recommendations and he was never really happy with the instruments. The thing about these older models is that, even though they may have been decent instruments in their time, improvements in design and production since they were made render them inferior. A modern Buffet B12 is also likely to be superior to a plastic Evette (sponsored by Buffet) model from the middle of the century, too.
Particularly where relatively new student instruments are concerned, the Big 4 are a safe choice. They have, IMHO, good standards and provide value for the money. There are undoubtedly other good instruments out there if one has the time and patience to look for them and the expertise to recognize them. The problem is that most non-clarinetist parents looking for an instrument for their child to start on don't have such time, patience or expertise. By sticking with a known and proven commodity, they are likely to provide their child with a good experience. The folks you see recommending the Big 4 know it's a safe choice.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-10-09 22:01
Wow! not much to add here, and ditto to all said.
Most B&H instruments, in all the grades, were well made, with very few exceptions.
The "big four" do include Boosey and Hawkes by virtue of Buffet-Crampon being their "current" brand/models.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-10-10 01:23
Boosey & Hawkes made clarinets under their own name until at least 1986, which is when they purchased Buffet. I don't know exactly when they dropped the B&H models from production.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-10-10 06:22
Old B&H clarinets sounded very different from German, French, or American market clarinets. Their sound was in short 'English'. Not too warm. Transparent. It is like a cool full moon. Provably this comes from their bore design. Rossi makes an English bore clarinet and Peter Eaton does. I am interested in these horns but they are too expensive.
The word 'big' may only mean a 'big company'.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-10-10 08:35
As Dee says, B & H clarinets were made up until the mid 1980s. Most second hand 1010s on the UK market are from 1970s or 1960s. 1980s ones are less common because they were produced in progressively smaller numbers as the 1980s progressed. It was the RC that took away their market, because although the R13 was popular for certain players, the RC was regarded as closer to the 1010 sound, thus allowing a smoother transition for professionals. Once the professionals began to shift in response to the greater reliability of intonation of the Buffet instrument, B&H began to lose the amateur market too. Players such as Thea King more or less led the migration in this direction. It received added significance because her late husband, Fred Thurston had been such an advocate of the 1010. James Campbell actively marketed the Buffet brand. B&H took the view that if you cannot beat them, buy them. I think they realised that the only way to recapture the market was to redevelop the instrument, and they did not want the risk of investing in that. Peter Eaton immediately redeveloped the wide bore instrument to improve intonation and has had some success, but not in the ball park of the old B&H market share.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-10-10 10:14
Isn't one of the Peter Eaton models a resurected B&H 10-10?
Add Howarth to the 2nd list. Very well made and popular with top players here, who are roughly evenly divide between PE, Howarth, Yamaha, Buffet, Selmer here in NZ. Guys do private iimports to get PE & Howarth.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-10-10 13:48
Good info, Dee, it seems the last few posts have not mentioned the LeBlanc [Noblet, Normandy, Vito] complete line of cls, my favorites along with the Selmers. Dee, I recently acquired a Dynamic 2 [not the H model] with the fork Eb/Bb and artic C#/G#, seems very good, so far. Thoughts? Don
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Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-10-10 18:09
IMO, the "Big 4" make up a very good initial selection base for those who have never before purchased a clarinet. They do not seem to make any absolutely bad clarinets, and it certainly seems otherwise easy to find extraordinarily awful instruments without even trying if you've just entered the clarinet marketplace as a buyer. However, I do believe it's shortsighted to think these four companies are the be-all and end-all of the clarinet world. There are several other manufacturers of high-quality clarinets, many having been mentioned already (I'd like to add at least Patricola and Steve Fox).
And while Boosey and Hawkes do not currently label any clarinets with their corporate name, Buffet is not their only clarinet-producing division, nor are all Buffet instruments made in the old Buffet factories. B & H also own Schreiber (Germany). Clarinets from that division include both German system and Boehm. I believe no currently-made Schreiber Boehm clarinets are labeled "Schreiber" but rather are marketed as part of the Buffet line.
Away from clarinets, the confusion grows when one examines my Buffet flute, which is marked both "Buffet Crampon Paris" and "Made in England."
Regards,
John
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