 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-06-01 17:47
Those are by far the worst notes on clarinets to tune to, yet players insist on tuning to just those notes when there are other and far better notes to tune to.
Just because the mid stave B (on Bb) or C (on A) is the same pitch as the given A tuning note, that doesn't mean it has to be the only note to tune to, especially as it's one of the most stable notes and moving the barrel has the least effect on it compared to notes nearer the mouthpiece end.
Tuning to intervals (3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 8ves, 10ths, 11ths and 12ths) is much better than tuning to just the same note which offers little to no flexibility.
And why tune to 440Hz regardless of temperature when playing in a wind ensemble if there aren't any other fixed pitch instruments involved? If it's cold, tune to 438Hz and if it's hot, tune to 442Hz (where 440Hz is standard) and that way you're not having to use a shorter barrel or pulling the mouthpiece or barrel out or pulling out the middle tenon which only causes more problems than it solves.
Even so, the flutes are always going to be sharp regardless.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-06-01 18:33
I appreciate your points about there being better single notes to tune to with others, or even using a tuning device.
Perhaps though, the importance of a superior single clarinet tuning method gets drowned out by the reality that playing in tune isn't, as I am sure you appreciate at least as well as me if not better, simply a "before playing music" process but a "constant and ongoing one while we play."
Even if we didn't play an instrument like the clarinet whose very design is an acoustical compromise, but perhaps more so because it is, we are tasked with making constant, albeit minute ("minoot") embouchure and fingering adjustments, particularly on notes more apt to be sustained, to match the pitch of those around us, even if that pitch might fall short of ideal when compared to a tuning device.
Post Edited (2026-06-02 03:41)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2026-06-01 23:12
Chris: I was always told never to pull the mouthpiece out. Is this just superstition? Does it bring about bad luck?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-06-02 00:36
ruben wrote:
> Chris: I was always told never to pull the mouthpiece out. Is
> this just superstition? Does it bring about bad luck?
>
"Never," I think, is always based in superstition. But in general pulling the mouthpiece out to help with tuning can bring about "bad luck" under two conditions:
1. If there's any wobble at all in the mouthpiece tenon's fit into the barrel's socket. One of the most unsettling feelings I know is having the mouthpiece move as I play.
2. If you use different barrels for your A and Bb clarinets, you obviously have to guess how far to push the mouthpiece into the barrel after an instrument change. I know there are players who move the mouthpiece and barrel together for instrument changes, but I don't think you can even do *that* for changes to and from C clarinet.
I guess any wobble can be taken care of with careful, skilled corking. So pulling the mouthpiece out might be reliable for a player who only plays Bb clarinet and never uses an A or C instrument. Otherwise, there's always a potential for trouble.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-06-02 01:10
Chris P wrote:
> Just because the mid stave B (on Bb) or C (on A) is the same
> pitch as the given A tuning note, that doesn't mean it has to
> be the only note to tune to, especially as it's one of the most
> stable notes and moving the barrel has the least effect on it
> compared to notes nearer the mouthpiece end.
>
> Tuning to intervals (3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 8ves, 10ths, 11ths
> and 12ths) is much better than tuning to just the same note
> which offers little to no flexibility.
When practicing at home or even warming up on- or back-stage (using an electronic tuner), I wouldn't disagree with any of this. But the pre-performance tuning note is simply a last-minute chance to get at least one representative note on every instrument to be in tune at the start of a piece - if only for the first dozen bars. There's obviously not time during those last few seconds before the conductor comes out and gives the downbeat to test and/or adjust the plethora of tuning points that a really well-tuned scale would require.
And, as SecondTry says, tuning needs to be ongoing throughout a performance to compensate both for changes in the instruments as they are played and for acoustical tendencies of specific notes on individual instruments independent of the playing environment.
>
> And why tune to 440Hz regardless of temperature when playing in
> a wind ensemble if there aren't any other fixed pitch
> instruments involved? If it's cold, tune to 438Hz and if it's
> hot, tune to 442Hz (where 440Hz is standard)
I guess to prevent the delay of starting a performance while everyone debates and disputes what pitch should be chosen.
There are almost always fixed pitch instruments involved in a band or orchestra program - mallet instruments, pianos and harps among them.
> Even so, the flutes are always going to be sharp
> regardless.
>
That depends for many flutists on which register they're playing in.
Karl
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Author: Alexey
Date: 2026-06-02 13:42
Below is a quote from one very proficient clarinetist, and I tend to believe him:
Quote:
It's best to tune each joint separately.
First the upper joint, then the lower. Since the note sounds from the first open hole, for the upper joint, this G¹ (F¹ on the piano) is adjusted by the barrel, and for the lower joint, C¹ (Bb²) is adjusted by extending the lower joint.
This is especially important on older instruments, where the midrange often overshoots, to move the upper and lower joints apart. The joint's transmission mechanism allows this.
The test note, C² (Bb²), is not adjustable in any way; extending the bell is pointless; it's just a test note.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-06-02 16:48
At the risk of being boring, let me go back to my earlier point and ask,
Are we debating how best in general to tune the entire clarinet, or how best to respond to and, maybe, make use of the tuning note played onstage at the beginning of a performance or rehearsal?
They're different operations, yet it always sounds, when we discuss tuning, as though we're trying to solve both problems at once.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-06-02 17:21
Alexey wrote:
> Below is a quote from one very proficient clarinetist, and I
> tend to believe him:
>
> Since the note sounds
> from the first open hole, for the upper joint, this G¹ (F¹ on
> the piano) is adjusted by the barrel, and for the lower joint,
> C¹ (Bb²) is adjusted by extending the lower joint.
>
First, read my comment below this one.
How much time does this process take and what conditions does it need? It certainly can't be done with all the other players simultaneously tuning to A or Bb. And it can't be done carefully in the few seconds we normally have for that final mass tuning.
Tuning the instrument joint by joint as you warm up before a concert or rehearsal is a little pointless if the goal is to be "in tune" with the band or orchestra you're about to perform with, since you can't know in practical terms where the ensemble will tune when the time comes for the final A or Bb check.
If the point is to practice on an in-tune instrument at home, then you *can* get a more accurate tuning doing as the player you quoted suggests. But the point of being "in tune" is to match or complement the other players' intonation in an ensemble in real time. When you practice at home, there is no one else, so it's hard to see the point.
Karl
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2026-06-02 18:50
For my part I'm fine with tuning to just concert A. If no pullout is needed, I know to use my regular set of special fingerings (for the throat tones). If I need to pull my barrel up to about 1.5mm, I use my second set of special fingerings (simpler than the first). If I'm still sharp at 1.5mm barrel pullout, I pull also the middle joint (also up to about 1.5) - still with my second set of special fingerings. If still sharp at this point, I'm in trouble - since pulling the barrel more makes the upper throat tones too flat to be effectively corrected by added embouchure pressure (luckily these are rare instances, as at abnormally high temperatures and when tuning below my regular level (442).
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2026-06-02 19:22
Chris P wrote:
> And why tune to 440Hz regardless of temperature when playing in
> a wind ensemble if there aren't any other fixed pitch
> instruments involved? If it's cold, tune to 438Hz and if it's
> hot, tune to 442Hz (where 440Hz is standard) and that way
> you're not having to use a shorter barrel or pulling the
> mouthpiece or barrel out or pulling out the middle tenon which
> only causes more problems than it solves.
I'm a strong supporter and endorser of this - which can be discussed and agreed upon within the band well in advance of the actual performance. Anyone giving the tuning note gives it just with his/her regular setup and without any pullout. Probably the rest of the band then needs minimal adjustments from their regular settings - regardless of the final Hz numbers (the only possible sufferers would be those with perfect pitch, either players or in the audience).
Post Edited (2026-06-02 20:07)
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Author: Alexey
Date: 2026-06-02 20:23
Good points, Karl.
I will try not to be too verbose.
1. If you are a soloist with a piano/ensemble/orchestra, you have plenty of time and flexibility to do whatever you want in terms of tuning.
2. If you are an orchestrant, then you should use the same note as others.
3. I assume you know the tendencies of your instrument and orchestra, for example. If you are a tiny bit low, then moving just the barrel could be sufficient. If you are seriously low, you need to move the lower joint as well to preserve the clarinet's overall tuning.
4. In any case, when playing, we have to listen to ourselves and correct the tuning in pauses if needed, moving the barrel and/or lower joint based on which notes are too low/high in the left hand or right hand.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-06-02 20:35
I think this was alluded to, but allow me an analogy:
Vandoren calibrates their reed making equipment, or so they claim, to tolerances with the width of a human hair.
This, IMO is analogous to the initial tuning of a clarinet, and we can argue on best methods to tune, or calibrate our instrument's intonation no differently I suppose than we can argue on methods to sharpen the cutting blades of the reed machine, or debate the alloys (or diamond) composition of the blades etc., or the way the machine is designed, to name but a few attributes that effect its performance.
But in either case this is a starting point not a destination. Blades will dull with use, just as sure as pitch will change with play/temperature. And calibration, be it in pitch or machine attributes is an ongoing process and journey, not a destination.
And perhaps because this is the case, the methods at which we determine our starting point (which notes to tune on) are drowned out by the path we take to remain in tune, not that initial tuning isn't important or that some methods aren't better than others, to the OPs point.
And for the record, playing in tune often has less to do with what the tuning device says, and playing in key with our fellow players, who may themselves deviate for accurate pitch.
Post Edited (2026-06-02 20:37)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2026-06-02 22:18
I agree that the "actual, live tuning" is what happens "in the moment." Environmental factors (particularly outside) must be allowed to influence the tuning objectives of the group. I once played a band concert on the steps of the Texas State Capitol in the middle of Summer. The person in charge of the tuning decided that we all needed to tune to the electric piano (a straight up A=440). In that instance, tuning to the tuba (most affected by the outrageously hot ambient air temperature) would have made more sense. Tuning wise, the concert was a total disaster.
Fortunately most concert conditions are not that exaggerated.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-06-02 22:54
Alexey wrote:
> 4. In any case, when playing, we have to listen to ourselves
> and correct the tuning in pauses if needed, moving the barrel
> and/or lower joint based on which notes are too low/high in the
> left hand or right hand.
We have to listen to ourselves *and* the other players. But we have to correct the tuning immediately, not at the next pause. You may want to move the barrel or the mouthpiece of even the middle tenon during your next rest so you can go back to playing more naturally, but you need a repertoire of adjusting methods that you can use in real time as you continue to play.
It's generally more work to adjust (by "lipping," changing your oral cavity, partially covering open holes, even "pinching" a little, etc.) on the fly to another player whose pitch doesn't match yours, but until you have enough of a pause, you can't rely on shortening or lengthening the tube at any point along its length as your only tuning method.
I just played Schumann's 3rd ("Rhenish") last weekend - the 1851 edition. There aren't many rests in the entire symphony for the 1st clarinet. You have either to drop out for a few bars to re-tune or find another way to *make* your notes sharper or flatter as needed. The adjustments needed are vey different when you're playing with the full brass section from those you may need to use when you're playing a passage marked "solo" but doubled at the unison or octave by a flute, and/or oboe and/or bassoon.
Karl
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Author: Alexey
Date: 2026-06-03 00:00
Hi Karl, maybe I was not clear enough.
When I am talking about tuning in pauses, I mean that we can do smth if we did smth wrong in initial tuning or when smth changed in the tune itself (clarinet got cold/hot), and the pitch changed.
In other cases, as I mentioned, "know our instrument tendencies" and move only the barrel or barrel and lower joint for initial tuning, and later on just listen to ourselves and others and try to "blend".
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Author: donald
Date: 2026-06-03 13:29
I haven't *just tuned to one note* for as long as I can remember. I've already written about this in other posts sometime in the past.
When in my orchestra, and having a concert A presented by our awesome oboist, I check the "B" on middle line and below the staff, but then slur down to throat F# to check that interval. Then when the strings play again, I quietly return to B... let them play and at the end of their tuning listen for an E string in the violins, and a D from a cellist or violist. I check if I'm in tune with the E, and then the D. If my E above middle C is IN TUNE with the cello/viola then I'm probably going to be sharp overall, so I'll pull out slightly.
This all has to happen relatively quickly, and I don't get time to "adjust then check again". For a performance that involves A clarinet I'll do the same routine but with C, G and throat F.
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Author: Erez Katz
Date: 2026-06-03 15:58
Chris well pointed out the lack of utility for clarinetists with concert A which makes perfect sense to me as I instinctively use F# to tune against it. I think though I picked it up from thr violins.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2026-06-04 13:36
Experienced players using the same equipment (horn and mouthpiece) playing regularly in an orchestra or a band with consistent tuning probably doesn't need much day-to-day tuning adjustments at the beginning of each session (with a suitable length of barrel already chosen, or with about the same amount of pullout every time). With seasonal or sudden variations in ambient temperature larger adjustments could of course be required. But, wouldn't an experienced player under these circumstances be able to adjust adequately just from a single tuning note, and also already know how to handle the irregularities of the scale resulting from a change in the usual barrel length or pullout - without the need of checking a multitude of different notes?
As a sidenote, I've often observed especially flutists (at least flute teachers instructing their pupils) tuning first to a low register note, then adjusting the pullout of the mouthpiece, then checking a high register note, and again adjusting the mouthpiece. To me this should put off the low register, so what's the point - and why not tune just one register and skip the other? Has someone else seen this, and is there an explanation (to me this would of course equal also to a clarinetist checking several notes and adjusting only his/her barrel to each)?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-06-04 17:57
Micke Isotalo wrote:
> As a sidenote, I've often observed especially flutists (at
> least flute teachers instructing their pupils) tuning first to
> a low register note, then adjusting the pullout of the
> mouthpiece, then checking a high register note, and again
> adjusting the mouthpiece. To me this should put off the low
> register, so what's the point - and why not tune just one
> register and skip the other? Has someone else seen this,
Many flutists I've played with tend to become progressively sharper as they move from register to register - i.e. the bottom octave is the lowest, the middle register is a little higher, and the register above ![[C6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c6.gif) is higher yet. Good flutists have learned (from their teachers or on their own) that the flute tends to behave this way and how to compensate to even out the intonation over all three registers. How they do this involves more flute technique than I know, but clearly it is possible. As clearly, though, they can't tune each register separately from the head joint without affecting the others. Most often flutists I play with, I think, tune and (hopefully) fix the other registers by changing their oral cavity size and shape, tongue position, lip plate (embouchure hole) position, etc., which are the same adjustments available to clarinetists.
BTW, making these adjustments while playing isn't something that all flute or clarinet teachers seem to teach their students. As a youth band and orchestra director for many years, I found that the flute and clarinet players in my groups almost always had the same reaction when I asked them to tune an especially exposed unison or a chord voice that needed attention. They would immediately start fiddling with their head joint or barrel position. I probably explained hundreds of times over the years that they can't do that mid-phrase.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-06-04 18:05
I've mostly seen flute players tuning to an upper register A/Bb and pull the headjoint to bring that note down to pitch as their flutes are inevitably built to 442Hz and the headjoint cork is still in the factory set position. Their reasoning being they're mostly playing in that register, but their 3rd 8ve is still going sharp and the low register is flat as a pancake. If they tuned to the low register A, then the upper and 3rd register get increasingly and painfully sharp to the point where some flute players are now nearly a semitone sharp in the 3rd register.
This is easily resolved by shifting the headjoint stopper away from the embouchure hole by up to 2mm and that brings the instrument into tune with itself. But some flute players seem to believe that moving the headjoint cork from the sacred mark on the cleaning stick will somehow render the entire instrument completely destroyed, so they prefer to stick with being flat and sharp at the same time.
Then once the headjoint stopper has been moved to true up the 8ves, they check their tuning and see they're in tune in each register and especially the 3rd 8ve, they now complain it sounds flat as they've got that used to their wide 8ves. The rules are if you believe you're in tune up top, chances are you're sharp. If you sound like you're flat in the 3rd 8ve, chances are you're in tune.
My clarinet teacher always quoted his former clarinet teacher - "Flutes are sharp. Flutes are ALWAYS sharp."
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2026-06-04 18:07)
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