 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-10-30 23:10
Just these days I received their “fall sales” advertisement in the mail.
Going to place an order I was disappointed to find out that their offers are only for US and Canada customers
I have regularly purchased their products over the years, but this spot disappointed me so much.
I will cancel my reservation for their Alpha bass clarinet,
as far as I am concerned, I no longer want to be a customer of a company that is only okay with me buying at full price but then cuts me off from special offers
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Author: joeljaffe
Date: 2024-10-31 01:34
Hello,
For transparency: I work for Backun and was the person responsible for this new policy. No doubt, some context is needed as to why this policy was implemented:
In the past, Backun sold and shipped products internationally, serving artists in numerous countries around the world. Over the past few years, many international countries have imposed stricter requirements on customs, duties, tariff and import documents, dramatically reducing our ability to ship products in a timely manner, and requiring customers to jump through numerous hoops just to clear a package through their international local government. Furthermore, we have seen a significant increase in import duties and clearance fees, causing some customers to abandon their order at customs (before delivery!), rather than pay the import fees required by local authorities. As you can imagine, this is a challenge for our customers, as well as our company.
Given the shifting demands and requirements of governments agencies, including local entities, we made the difficult decision to limit our online sales to ship within Canada and the United States only. Unfortunately, this impacts some Backun customers, such as yourself. Believe me, this is not lost on us and we offer you our sincere apologies for the frustration caused.
While we work with many wonderful international distributors around the world, we lean on their expertise to import our products for sale in their respective domestic markets. We're sorry to read of your decision to cancel your Alpha Bass Clarinet order. Regardless, we remain grateful for your interest and previous investment in Backun products.
In gratitude,
Joel Jaffe
VP of Sales and Marketing
Backun Musical Services
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-10-31 01:51
Hello Joel,
I am glad you give me confirmation that there are Elite customers who already do not pay VAT and customs and also can benefit from your offers and the others, series "B" customers who have to pay your items not only burdened with customs, VAT etc but also at FULL price!
Thanks for the clarification
Best regards
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-10-31 12:44
I think that Clarsax has a valid complaint. Although I imagine that Backun are probably rather snowed under meeting the run on basses in the US and Canada alone at present, if you're someone overseas setting your jaw to pay the additional costs of import duty and shipping, then finding that in addition you are excluded from any offers is bound to feel like a discrimination on top of being in an already disadvantaged position. However sound the reasoning behind this limited offer policy, the customer service implications are perhaps worthy of reconsideration.
Personally I'm looking forward to there being more Backun distributions overseas, which should mean buyers aren't paying sales tax in two countries and any offers by Backun can presumably be extended to customers through them. That, I think, would be a normalized state of affairs.
I appreciate that some things just need time.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-10-31 15:02
Too difficult to ship overseas? Boo hoo. How pathetic, guess what- thousands of *people* and business's deal with this every day and get by perfectly fine thank you very much.
Still, hard to expect much from a company that threatened legal action against someone who merely passed on the news that some customers had not been happy. You can keep your tacky looking gold keys. Honestly, that has to be the most ridiculous thing I've seen written here in a long time.
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Author: ghoulcaster
Date: 2024-10-31 21:05
They may not want to ship overseas themselves, but they certainly don’t have any issues with all the chinese shipments they get of the Betas, Alphas, Alpha Pluses, Proteges and model Q (which has the body manufactured in Canada with the keys made and fitted in China.)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-10-31 22:01
Aren't there enough high-end offerings from Buffet, Selmer, Yamaha and Uebel?
Is there something so special about Backun's new bass that people are willing to go through so much troubles to get one?..
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-10-31 22:31
Quite! I don't know any bass players in UK orchestras who play anything other than Selmer or Buffet.
For all I know, the new basses may outshine these but I would want to hear the views of a respected orchestral bass player. The demands within the orchestra require a quite different sound to some of the demos I hear online from some of the 'names' prominent on YouTube. In particular I mostly see heavy promotion from just one player who has a business interest in pushing them hard.
Some of these players have great facility but it's simply not the sound you want in a top orchestra. Something like this https://youtu.be/21bcWIWJvFM?si=RsqlPFbAzHtVh3Zf
Post Edited (2024-10-31 22:37)
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-10-31 22:49
Thanks for replying, guys
----- BUT -----
mine is not a thread about the Alpha bass clarinet (although I did mention my ex-reservation)
My post is about their "fall sales" that they are not willing to ship to other customers who are not from US or Canada citing the excuse of customs etc.
When everyone goes to place an order is aware of customs fees and shipping costs
Plus, at the chekout they can add a reminder in LARGE print if they want, then everyone does his own calculations...it doesn't seem like such a complicated issue...
The matter, on the other hand, is simple;
They had the CG crystal bass clarinet mouthpiece on sale for $150 as a discontinued item but they excluded me from the sale because I'm located in EU
...well...
why they do not forward this sale to their EU retailer who still have that mouthpiece at full 451 Euros ??
Post Edited (2024-10-31 23:08)
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Author: Jordan Selburn
Date: 2024-11-01 09:03
Perhaps you should take a look at the relative price of Buffets in the EU vs in the United States. Buffet *mandates* that US customers pay a much higher price than customers in the EU, by imposing a minimum sales price on American dealers. Just compare the prices on a Tosca Bb at Howarth, Thomman, Matthew's, etc. vs. the $10k from any US store (plus sales tax) - EU customers pay thousands of dollars less.
Maybe Americans should be saying "no more Buffet"?
Jordan
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-11-01 11:34
Purchasing a bass clarinet is usually a long-term consideration. It certainly would be for me! Price or at least some kind of deal really wouldn’t be a priority. The important thing is to buy the best instrument unless, of course, the price is totally out of reach.
I looked for Backun bass availability in the UK yesterday and it seemed very poor. My technician tells me that the quality of setup on all bass instruments leaves even more to be desired than regular instruments so if I had to buy one now I would probably head to the best shop I could find and ensure that their workshop would thoroughly go over the chosen instrument before agreeing the purchase.
Lucky I don’t need to do this as I have a superb Selmer that I expect to outlast me!
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-11-01 11:38
This is a different matter Jordan,
I am not aware of Buffet putting products on sale and refusing to ship internationally.
However, you can buy from Thomann or Matthews getting VAT deduction, they ship to US
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-11-01 11:52
I don't know if there has really been time for much body of opinion to form regarding the Backun Alfa vs the Global Max, but that's an alternative for which there ARE distributors in both the UK and EU. and with similar prices on both sides of the pond.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-11-01 13:25
One thing is sure Julian, if one of their horns goes discontinued you will find it super discounted among their offerings but EU customers won't be able to buy it, while their EU dealers will continue to sell it at full price...ridiculous
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-11-01 15:55
I can certainly understand Backun's point. I am sure that most customers around the world are buying new stock from their network of distributors. These sale items seem to be a direct sale. If they find that the level of hassle and cost negates the positives of them selling, that is a decision they need to make.
I have had situations where there were items available in another part of the world that I have been unable to buy in the US. I think we are spoiled these days with the internet because generally it is possible to get anything from anywhere on the planet. I can understand and sympathize with the frustration when that is not the case.
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-11-01 16:21
Ed,
if they don't want to ship the matter is simple....
If they offer discontinued products on sale, why don't they forward these offers through their dealers as well?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-11-02 04:43
Quote:
If they offer discontinued products on sale, why don't they forward these offers through their dealers as well?
It is probably because these items are single items rather than regular stock.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2024-11-02 05:08
I gotta say - I'm confused by the reaction on this thread.
News: business decides it isn't worth the risk to offer reduced pricing globally.
I'm having a difficult time being either shocked or offended at this to be honest.
<shrug>
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
[Edit: fixed a spelling error]
Post Edited (2024-11-03 03:41)
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Author: ghoulcaster
Date: 2024-11-02 07:05
Clarsax, this may not be the thread for it, but I remember you had a thread about choosing between the low Eb Selmer or Buffet.
Did you make a decision? If so, I’d be very interested to know what you learned?
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-11-02 11:17
Fuzzy, you said well...
If you have the ambition to be an international company but you can't guarantee your customers the same treatment maybe it's better to stay in your neighborhood
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-11-02 13:08
Some companies don't even allow dealers to sell/ship internationally, for example Yamaha. This is to protect local dealers. In theory, you might assume that if a company has a discount then dealers all over the world should have it. Sometimes it's true and they do, but often they paid the regular price or just don't want to give a discount (it depends on the deal between the manufacturer and importer/dealer I guess). It's way worse with other products. For example when I was looking at cameras, I constantly saw all sorts of huge manufacturer discounts on B&H, but nothing local.
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-11-02 13:10
These conditions are common. Apple is rolling out AI differently across the world due to local restrictions.
I was looking to buy a component for a hifi system from a US company and they won’t sell to anyone in the EU or UK.
I am sure there are many examples.
Post Edited (2024-11-02 14:23)
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2024-11-02 15:34
symphony1010 wrote:
> Quite! I don't know any bass players in UK orchestras who play
> anything other than Selmer or Buffet.
There is currently one- Mark O'Brien of City of Birmingham Symphony now plays a Royal Global Firebird in after playing a Selmer for many years, and he actually told me that he prefers the former over the latter.
But we digress.
Josh
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-11-02 15:46
Quote:
I'm having a difficult time being either shocked or offended at this to be honest.
or as they say- "move on folks, nothing to see here!" LOL
While frustrating, it is certainly not a life threatening or changing experience.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2024-11-02 15:54
m1964 wrote:
> Aren't there enough high-end offerings from Buffet, Selmer,
> Yamaha and Uebel?
>
> Is there something so special about Backun's new bass that
> people are willing to go through so much troubles to get one?..
>
As much as I love my modified Selmer bass, I gotta say that competition is a healthy thing which breeds innovation- Low C bass clarinets included. Royal and Backun adding their offerings to the list doesn't hurt at all IMO.
It is also worth noting the Backun basses are generally less costlier than their Buffet & Selmer counterparts, and has input from Michael Lowenstern. These 2 factors probably helped build the bandwagon for the new horns.
I was at Clarinetfest 2024 and many people were raving about the Backun basses, so I tried them briefly as well. They sound good and feel very even, but I ultimately preferred my modified Selmer Privilege. There is also another reason I've decided to pass the new horns that were unrelated to their performance, but I won't disclose it here.
Josh
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-11-02 16:56
clarnibass:
"In theory, you might assume that if a company has a discount then dealers all over the world should have it"
If they are serious why not?
It seems that shipping internationally is a problem now... 😂
There are many companies, even INDIVIDUALS who do not have such problems
Anyway say whatever you want but I'm done with Backun, period
... and yes, this won't change my life 😄
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-11-02 18:36
I'm very happy to be proved wrong and I will search out the new bass clarinets and give them a try. It could well be the case that I'm out of touch and things have improved. Certainly, until a few years ago, only top price bass clarinets produced a sound that was the real deal.
In saying that, the bass clarinet world is/was quite split. Bearing in mind how out of date my comment might be(!) the orchestral bass player was interested in making a quite different sound to the doubler or someone who was interested in flying round the instrument at top speed.
Selmer basses ruled as they seemed to have the sound and sonority that worked in the orchestral setting. As Buffet instruments began to break through I asked a few London-based players whether they were considering them and was met with a sharp rebuke!
I sense things changing so I will go on my hunt to try some of the new models!
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Author: rs cl
Date: 2024-11-04 13:00
What a ridiculous topic.
Yes, many companies sell products internationally but they don't all sell them at the same discount or price. This is why companies have distributors. Maybe visit one and try the instrument and see what price they have or could make for you?
If this issue was enough to turn you off buying a clarinet from Backun (or any company) then clearly you have no idea what you were actually looking for in a bass clarinet.
I'm not going to stop buying Nike because they don't sell my specific shoes at the same price as in the US.
//
John
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-11-04 20:39
Look man...
I have been buying online from all sites, often international, music material for 20 years and all I find ridiculous is this behavior and your response
I don't feel I should tell you what I look for in the instruments I play and already have, including a beautiful Selmer Paris bass clarinet...
The world is beautiful because it is varied, sure...and even more varied is the world of shoes. Be well
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2024-11-04 21:09
I live in Mexico - and I'm at the whim of the peso-dollar exchange rate many times. Along with VAT and customs duty. Sometimes I can order from another country and get the discounts etc. using a freight forwarder instead of the seller directly shipping (sometimes they won't, sometimes the discount disappears, etc.). Living outside of the USA for 7 years now (!) has made me very sensitive to prices and international commerce. Never mind won't ship, often the model you want isn't available in another country. At all. For what seems to be no reason. And of course vice versa - I see more car companies here in Mexico than I ever did in the USA.
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-11-04 22:17
All I can say is 'Welcome to Capitalism!' Companies will charge what they will.
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Author: Reedplayer91
Date: 2024-11-21 16:32
The response from Mr. Jaffe seems to be nothing more than a smokescreen for the fact that Eastman is preventing this as the majority share holder of Backun. Their home site is powered by Shopify which provides easy options for international shipping, price calculation. It also gives options for having duty costs included in the final checkout. Sorry all, but this is nothing more than Eastman not wanting Backun to offer lower prices than the home country for international customers.
Also interesting to note... the USA is an international destination for Backun as well.
Post Edited (2024-11-21 16:41)
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