 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2022-03-25 01:59
How do you remove a needle spring from a pillar (post)? One that you want to put back in and re-use. I need to tighten the post.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2022-03-25 08:59
First make sure you can't remove the post with the spring on it. Sometimes they can "climb" over some obstacles.
If the spring is not held very tightly, then just gripping with pliers and pushing works. This is extremely rare on new clarinets and only happens occasionally on old clarinets.
Usually you need to grip very tightly e.g. with pliers, put some force on whatever is holding the spring, either by hand, or often preferably by tapping on it as close to the spring as possible, but also support the post from the other side e.g. with a piece of wood. I usually use patent pliers so I don't need to hold them, then tap with a wood block from behind. It's probably possible to get away with nothing supporting the post most times, but I wouldn't risk it for the times that it's not (and you can't really know in advance).
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2022-03-26 03:11
Removing springs can be easy or very difficult. Today I replaced a spring on a bass clarinet and would not have been able to do it without specialized tools. I actually had to remove the post to remove the spring and destroyed the spring in the process. It needed a longer spring anyhow.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-03-27 00:04
If the needle spring is proving difficult to push out using pliers, then use wire cutters and cut the spring around 5mm from the pillar. The force of cutting the spring often tends to free up the flattened end secured in the pillar and it's then a simple task of pushing the stub out and then replacing it with the same gauge needle spring.
You can use wire cutters to grip the spring near the pillar and another pair of pliers to grasp both the pliers and pillar to help push the spring out, only that can often bruise the needle spring and cause a weak spot which could break at that point.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2022-03-27 00:45
None of this discussion says which way to move the spring. I've never needed to replace a spring in a modern instrument, but in older ones (which sometimes arrive from eBay with broken springs), you have to push the spring backwards, as one end of the spring is larger than the other. This is designed to stop it coming right through the pillar and falling out, but it means there is no way you can grab the long end of the spring and pull it out - you have to push it back the way it came. But is this true in instruments being made today?
The worst job I ever encountered in this area was a spring that broke off right at the pillar (something I'm always nervous will happen when bending a spring to increase the tension). There was literally nothing sticking out either side to hammer. So I got the pillar out, put it in a vice, and used a carborundum centre punch on the stump. I could only make it protrude a fraction of a mm, but it was just enough to grab with pliars. It too ages, but the sense of triumph at the end was almost worth it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-03-27 03:36
"None of this discussion says which way to move the spring."
It's pretty self explanatory as how else can you grip the spring with pliers to push it out?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2022-03-27 09:07
>> None of this discussion says which way to move the spring... you have to push the spring backwards... no way you can grab the long end of the spring and pull it out - you have to push it back the way it came. <<
I thought it was clear by saying "pushing", exactly how you described it, but maybe it wasn't clear enough?
To clarify, pushing means gripping the part sticking out and pushing towards to post.
>> But is this true in instruments being made today? <<
Almost always yes, exactly the same.
>> as one end of the spring is larger than the other. This is designed to stop it coming right through the pillar and falling out <<
Not just that, but mainly to stop it rotating in the post. Sometimes springs become loose in the posts (or installed poorly, etc.) but they rarely fall. The tension is pretty good at preventing that. Without the enlarged and, and more importantly, none-round area, the springs would rotate immediately.
Which brings an important point, if Bill ends up removing the spring with the intention of re-installing it, then remember to put it back in the same orientation it was installed before. It's possible to install it 180 degrees in reverse, having to bend it to the other side, and possibly weakening it from the bending back and forth.
>> The worst job I ever encountered in this area was a spring that broke off right at the pillar <<
Lacking tools, the usual method is to use another spring to punch it out, supporting the back of the post. Cut the punch spring to the length that is the best proportion between holding it and acting as a punch.
Though there are special pliers for this that usually make this very fast.
Post Edited (2022-03-27 18:20)
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Author: Bill
Date: 2022-03-28 01:10
Thanks everyone! Learned a ton here.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2022-03-28 22:57
Late, but I'll add:
All springs are inserted from the opposite side of where the spring protrudes. Think of needle springs inserted point first. The long spring is cut to length, then butt end of the spring is flattened with a little hammer on an anvil. The resulting flare is what makes it hold in place.
For a one off without tools, the best way would be to remove the post with the spring, grab the spring with some pliers very close to the post, rest the post on something, and gently tap the pliers with something small, forcing the spring out, like clarnibass says.
To avoid removing posts, which can cause it's own problems, and is sometimes impossible:
I use a spring removing pliers (a regular pair of needle nose pliers, with the jaws almost entirely cut/ground off, so that the jaws are only about 3mm long - the faces are flat, so no serrations, but they're kind of rough finished, not ground smooth). It allows you to grab the spring with the handle directly perpendicular to the clarinet body, if you want. With the rough(ish) faces, and being so close to the fulcrum, they grab very well. You can try substituting any short pliers that fit. Never use anything serrated.
Then, I use my Knipex parallel pliers to grab the post and the spring removing pliers together and squeeze the needle out by closing the parallel pliers. (Kinpex parallel pliers are some of the best tools every made - worth more than the considerable price). You have to be careful not to damage the post. You can try using a nice pair of round nose pliers instead to squeeze, if it fits. Never use anything serrated.
You especially have to be careful about accidentally "swedging" the screw rod hole in the post with the parallel pliers. The entire hole doesn't get smaller, just the edge where the pliers contact it - basically you bent the edge of the hole over. If that happens you can insert an appropriately sized punch on the side that's "swedged" to carefully undo it by twisting by hand. The rod should go in effortlessly, but without any detectable slop (or any more than was there originally).
You have to hold the spring VERY close to the post, less than 1mm, at least at first to loosen it The parallel pliers can apply a lot of force. This would also go for the removing the post method. If the spring is tight enough in the post and you are not holding the spring removing pliers close enough to the post, you will just squish the spring into a "z" shape. I ruined a number of springs this way, until I learned better.
To re-insert the spring, push it in with your fingers until it's oriented correctly, then take some round nose pliers and squeeze it in. Put the round nose pliers on the curve of the post (or whatever works), and the end of the spring and squeeze. It's ok if it doesn't go ALL the way in (unless it was that way before). A tiny sliver sticking out is ok as long as the spring is in tight. Even if you get it oriented correctly, you'll probably have to adjust it slightly so that the tip is the correct height, and it has the desired tension.
I always read what the other guys say closely and learn from it. Thanks!
- Matthew Simington
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Author: BobW
Date: 2022-03-31 17:53
Yesterday on YouTube, 3/30/2022, Music Medic did a tutorial on removing and replacing springs
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