 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-07-07 18:40
Hi, MW -
I didn't know there were any... experts :]
Looks like a fairly nice horn with a fairly nice price tag : It doesn't seem, from the pic, to have the articulated C#/G# mechanism -- but it has the little 'extension' to facilitate that. Still, it's a nice instrument. Selmers have made some pretty okay horns in their time  The price seems (to me) to have stretched the limit for a (roughly?) used Oehler. To each his own. All depends on what someone's looking for I guess.
- ron b -
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Author: Hans de Nijs
Date: 2001-07-08 09:00
An interesting older instument, aspecially for the key-work, never seen before!
It is in fact a Müller system clarinet with some extra key-work.
Upper joint: the fork B-flat mechanism isn't conform the traditional german lay-out, the same for the side triller keys. It looks partly more like the key-work arrangement of the Boehm system.
On the lower joint: no fork B-flat/F" mechanism (thus no Oehler system), interesting is the position of the long B, compare also the recently "introduced" arrangement of this key by Schenk&Seggelke on their top-line german instruments (see www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de )also in english).
Hans
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-07-08 13:59
No "expert" , but what is interesting to me is of course the left ring finger ring, for the "fork Eb/Bb"? and the location of the lower joint Ab/Eb? tone hole and the links among the 3 large holes [might require different fingerings??] . Quite diff. from any "late" Muller/Alberts I have. Perhaps Al Rice and/or Debbi Reeves can help us, please. Don
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-08 19:22
Don, since you frequent their List (or at least I thought you did) --- why not direct them to this convesration. Thanks.
FWIW, I think we do have a couple of very knowledgable people here. They haven't all responded as yet, hope fully we'll get some discourse on this unique key system.
Don, thanks again. (YES, you are an expert!)
Best,
mw
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2001-07-09 08:42
Hallo,
I counted 19 keys (two more than the 'lower limit' of 17 keys for german fingering - the forked clarion Bb and the forth trill key). The design of the mechanism looks some way between the 'German standard', the 'American Albert' and 'Boehm' - perhaps done due to patent reasons.
Esp. I noticed the throat A key does not close the index finger ring; the additional trill key is the Bb trill key; the finger plates of the Bb and B trill keys (No. 1 and 2) are of the same size as the F key (No. 3); the 'gap line' between left hand little finger E and F# key is 'rotated' like seen on many 'American Alberts' (no direct movement from F# key to C# key); the axis for the upper joint ring keys is on the opposite side than at the 'German standard', and off course the different design of the low E key (in a way, I've first seen only a basset clarinet - and Seggelke of course).
Arnold (the basset hornist)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-07-09 15:14
TKS Arnold, your comments are very astute [good], you sure know a lot more of the Oehler and other German key systems than I. I am now doubting that this is other than a "mixed marriage" of an early [see the wrap-around register key and the "finger" prob. to operate an art. C#/G# mech.] Full [or semi Full] Boehm UJ with a nearly-conventional Albert LJ [I am wrong in my above post re: the Ab/Eb, it is "normal", the extra right-side pad is for F#/C#, IMHO, with a single F/C pad and usual E/B pad with diff. linkages].. The bell may be the only Selmer piece, cant see their logo on UJ or LJ. Went for $460 ?? to an unsuspecting buyer?? Dont plan to waste more time on this, but is/was interesting, TKS, MW, Don
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-07-10 19:24
Baines has some pictures of hybrid instruments, but I don't think this is one of them. The ring for the LH ring finger is unusual, but not unique, and the spacing and size of the holes on the upper joint indicates, to me at least, that it has the standard "Albert" fingerings, with the left middle finger down for F/C. On the other hand, it lacks the usual second sliver key for the left middle finger. The next-to-bottom trill key is only partly visible, but seems to open a hole that would give F/C with the left index finger down.
Someone should get in touch with the winner and find out what it is.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Daniel
Date: 2001-07-16 04:56
There is a Selmer clarinet pictured on the cover of one issue of The Clarinet from a couple of years back. I'll have to dig up the article. The picture was actually a mural on the side of a Holiday Inn in New Orleans. But it talked about the clarinet itself.
Ah.. Here is it. It's on the cover of Volume 24, Issue 2 (Feb-Mar 1997) It is simply modified Albert system. The one on the cover has a third ring on the lower joint. The one in the article (used as a model for the mural) dates to the 20's. So it was still a time when Albert system was in prominent use among jazz and poorer players. Yet Boehm system was gaining more acceptance and makers were offering it as more of a standard. I believe Selmer made these as a compromise for players who wanted to keep the Albert finerings yet wanted some of the benefits of the extra trills and rings on the Boehm.
Daniel
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