 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sara
Date: 2001-07-07 02:35
I have a question about this, I've never been able to trill very fast and now that I'm into harder pieces, my teacher is really pushing me to trill faster and evenly. But for some reason, I can't trill but only so fast and thats kinda slow and it sounds really bad. Maybe its because my fingers are small or something, but even doing that gradually faster ecsercise with trill just doesn't help. Can anybody help me figure this out or give a good excersise to try?
Sara :O
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Author: Mike Harrelson
Date: 2001-07-07 03:58
You may be expecting results to soon, practice trills a little every day. It will come but like everything else takes a little time.
What may be going on is the fact that you are trying too hard and becoming tense. Its hard to "make a fist and trill at the same time". Trill a little slower (in practice) while telling yourself "to relax".
A good exercise might be scales. Play the first note then trill the first note, play the second note then trill the second note and so on. This could be your warm up and warm down for each practice. Do a different scale each day. This way you are practicing scales and trills each day (you do practice every day don't you?)
You'll get it, just relax and enjoy.
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Author: Keil
Date: 2001-07-07 13:59
I was always told to aim for the outside of the ring. Say you're trilling a D to an E the idea is to think in one direction either up, up, up or down, down, down, not Up,Down, Up.... also when trilling that D to E aim for the outside of the ring, the part closet to the long rods. This concept of aiming outward and thinking in one direction helped alot for me. Another thing you have to realize about trilling in general is that your index and middle finger are the strong fingers whereas your ring and pinky are the weaker fingers. In order to play runs and trills evenly you have to think about slowing down your index and middle finger and speeding up your ring and pinky. I hope this line of thought helps
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Author: William
Date: 2001-07-07 16:23
Also try practicing groups of 16th notes. Ex: 1e&a 2e&a 3 4 (Cdcd Cdcd C D) on each note of a scale making certain that your 16ths are even. Move only the finger(s) evvolved in the trill action--not your hand, wrist or arm. A little practice everyday is a must to develope the strength and control your fingers need. Practicing slow and even trills will enhance every aspect of your technical control over your clarinet. Like long tones, practicing trills is often overlooked by many clarinetists in their everyday practice routine. Good clarineting!!!!!!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-07-07 17:50
Trilling also is easier if you have the correct amount of arch in the fingers. If they are too flat or too arched, it will really slow down your ability to trill. While any incorrect position causes problems, too flat seems to cause a bigger problem than too arched.
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Author: Sara
Date: 2001-07-07 19:04
Dee-
I think that the arch thing might be my problem. My fingers are so small that I can't seem to cover the entire hole cofortably with the correct arch. So what should I do, just try to get around it or just wait till I grow a little more?
Sara
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-07 19:10
I can trill with all my fingers but the right pinky finger, and my left pinky finger tends to move 64th note speed while the others move around 32nd note (If you get what I'm saying.) Perhaps I should try the arch thing too. Thanks, Dee.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-07-07 20:21
Sara,
Since your hands seem to be small, I would suggest a lot of very slow practice striving for absolute accuracy. Gradually speed it up but at each level strive for that same accuracy and don't move on to the next speed until you have it. People with small hands and fingers simply can't get away with being as "sloppy" as those of us with larger hands. From your posting, it sounds like you are young and so expect to grow some more. That will help of course but you don't know how much more you'll grow or when so don't wait on that to work on and solve the problem. You might always have small hands and/or thin fingers.
Another thing to check that causes problems with trills is basic hand position. Again if your hands are small, it makes the problem even worse. Ask your instructor to check it. A typical problem with the right hand is having it too far under the horn. Many people try to support the thumb rest at the base of the thumb. That position is incorrect and pulls the fingers out of position, making it very difficult to trill well. The thumb rest should be centered on the line where the base of the thumbnail meets the flesh of the thumb. This will make it easier to reach all the right hand keys and holes more accurately.
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Author: Robin
Date: 2001-07-08 15:23
I am someone who has had a similar problem with trills and I really recommend all of the above advice. When checking the arch of your fingers, I would be careful to make sure that you are neither over arching them or underarching them. I happened to be curving my fingers too much. They should be as relaxed as possible. When you rest your hands by your side - what are the fingers' natural curves. I applied this natural curve to my 'playing fingers' and got great results.
When you practice your trills really slowly (and I mean really slowly) are you playing the key/ring/hole in the same place and with the same part of the finger every time? I think you should make sure you can do this before you increase the tempo.
Best of luck to you!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-07-08 15:37
None of my extensive efforts has managed to speed up my tongueing. My trill speed has never increased from mediocre. I believe SOME people have some sort of neurological limits to the speed of oscillation of tongue and/or digits. Of course all those who have fast limits will never believe that some people may have slower limits.
Why can't the very fast triller learn to trill at twice the speed? Why can't the top athlete learn to run at twice the speed? Why can't the colour blind person not learn to distinguish colour? Why can't the cripple do high jumps?
We accept these more obvious limits. Why can't we accept that we all have individual limits - some not so visible or explicable? Just because I, myself, can do something extremely well that does not mean that it is possible for anybody to achieve the same. To assume so, based on my experience of life, is extremely presumptuous.
By all means try to speed up trills, but accept that there is a possibility that it is not possible for ALL people to do all things to the same limits. We are actually made with significant individual differences. The evidence is all around us.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2001-07-08 17:59
We are familar with the plateau of learning. If one receives discouragment, during
this time, one may give up rather than pushing up. I recall that the poster
above is self-taught and this is more likely a limit for him than his nerves.
One may reach the limit of self-teaching ability very much before one's physical limit. I have never heard of a self-coached Olympic athletic in recent history. The limit may be on the
ability to find the technique which will enable one to tounge and trill faster, rather than
nerve twitch speed. Perhaps it is time for a few lessons.
I hate to see such discouragement given to a learner. One can continue to develop nerve connections through out life, and I am sure there is some upper limit..but I doubt the orginal
poster has come to that point.
My teacher recently showed me how to do very clean, fast trills when I could do them
right hand alone. An example is D to eb, low register, by using a larger joint (almost to the
elbow) I can trill rather well. It works G to A and such too. Leverage really helps.
Perhaps staccato playing with anticipated fingers?
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-07-08 19:21
I agree with Ginny that it is unlikely that Sara has yet reached her actual physical limits since she implies that she is still young with some growing to do. Until one's technique is perfect and one has spent considerable time working on speed and stamina, it is too early to say that they have hit a physical limit.
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Author: Mary Catherine
Date: 2001-07-08 21:29
Well actually I'm 17 and I'll be 18 in december but its will 4 and 1/2 year of playing for me in december. Thanks everyone for the advice.
Sara
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-08 23:37
> By all means try to speed up trills, but accept that there is a
> possibility that it is not possible for ALL people to do all things
> to the same limits. We are actually made with significant
> individual differences. The evidence is all around us.
That's why I can't trill well with my pinkies. Either a too loose or too tight joint. I have it in both hands, so with my right hand I clench up and hammer down too hard, which can't be helped, and with my left hand it still hammers down, but since I'm left-handed it moves at Mach 3 instead of clenches up. I find that this can't be helped and I agree with Gordon entirely in this case. (Besides, if you try to speed up trills too much, they sound really bad, like two notes at once.)
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Author: Sara
Date: 2001-07-09 02:49
Sorry about that name thing up there, I let one of my friends use my computer to look up some clarineting stuff, and I forgot to change it. Oh by hte way I do have a private teacher its just hisway if not working and I think I'm the first student of his thats had this problem so were both learning at the same time.
Sara
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-07-09 16:47
Ginny, you've fired me up once again....
You expertise on my life is limited. I was thinking specifically of my FLUTE playing when I wrote my piece. I had lessons for many years from a Canadian player who was regarded as one of this country's two best teachers at the time. However these limitations are more restricting for clarinet than flute, because on flute I can easily double tongue at double the single tongue speed, and it is perhaps relevant that most finger travel can be much less on flute.
"I hate to see such discouragement given to a learner" I have found little that is more annoying or discouraging than others assuming that all things they can do are possible for me. It is that very assumption that in my younger days resulted in me seeing myself as a failure in spite of my many sucesses. My point above seems to have been totally lost on you.
I certainly did not state that Sara's physical (or 'software') limits had been reached. Indeed my last paragraph encouraged her to strive on. I only presented a "possibility" so that if she, like me, was unsuccessful in her persuit she would NOT feel quite so discouraged. There is actually a great deal of satisfaction rather than discouragement in getting to know very well one's own strengths and weaknesses. It is only then that we can focus our pursuits and reach towards our full potential.
"One can continue to develop nerve connections through out life". I agree, but the issue may be one of how fast signals actually traverse the nerves, or time delay in muscle response, as I experience when fingers are really cold. Any nerologists out their to offer expertise?
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-09 18:35
I'm no neurologist, but I can tell that my problem is in my joints. My pinkies just aren't made to move like my regular fingers. If I could change it, I would.
Or maybe trills are more psychologically difficult for most left-handed people to grasp. There are a lot of plausible reasons.
It all comes down to one point: I doesn't matter why you can't do something except to be certain that you really *can't* do it. And each person could have a separate legitimate reason and they *still* wouldn't be ble to do it. I'm sure that there are millions of reasons why someone can't trill on a particular instrument besides any obvious reason, like they don't have fingers or the key is stuck. But the point is, some people just have difficulty and we can't expect the whole world to be like Mozart when it comes to ability. I know that I'm no Mozart, and I don't expect everyone here to be one.
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2001-07-11 21:18
Sara,
I too share your complaints about trilling. I don't have the small hand problems, but I think I'm just a slow, terrible triller. Just about anyone who has heard me play trills tells me that this is not so, including a terrific teacher. The key is evenness (is that a word?). You can move your fingers at break-neck speed, but if it is not even it will sound terrible. Try this.....figure out how fast you can possibly move your fingers, regarless of how even it sounds. Then consciously slow your fingers down VERY slightly, and you will have a beautiful sounding trill. Then when you practice, try and speed up your top speed, not your slightly slower "trilling" speed. That way you are only concentrating on one thing at a time. As you gradually move up your top speed, you will increase you "trilling" speed right along with it. Also the best piece of advice given throughout this thread is to relax.
Good luck, and happy trills!
Jerry
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