 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-09 15:07
If you've watched the thread Karen started about the eBay scam for a purple R-13, you'll be happy to know eBay finally shut him down. Not only did he use my photo of an R-13 that I had running (a brand new one, I might add) to advertise his most unusual purple R-13--but, David Kinder noticed he "borrowed" wording from another Buffet seller.
Good job Karen and David!!!
So, if you're looking for an R-13--be careful where you buy. Check out feedback and see if you can get in touch with the seller before you ship out your hard earned cash! These guys seem to feed on R-13s because they sell for a good price and are so plentiful. He probably figured no one would catch him.
eBay sent me a stack of paperwork to file via fax (so they could have a record of my signature on file), but make no mistake about it--it is against copyright law to "borrow" a photograph or ad copy without written permission of the owner of that photo or ad copy. It's called "Intellectual Property" and websites (Mark could probably fill us in on more should anyone be interested) fall under the new digital category for these kind of things.
If I take a photo of a clarinet that I say I own and I publish that photo on eBay--it is my Intellectual Property.
And, as we all know, it isn't that the guy took my photo without permission--it's that he looked like, smelled like, sounded like, and probably was--a scam artist.
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Author: David
Date: 2001-07-09 15:16
Hear hear!!
I'm glad that the scam artist is off the air for now. I'm still going to be wary of any clarinet purchases. (Unless, of course, I know the people auctining from this forum. Lol) Good job Karen and David for keeping your eyes open better than I did.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-07-09 17:06
Great job Karen, David and Brenda! Folks like you make the world a better place for folks like me (and a few others) :]
I'm glad you 'caught' this guy in the act. One down !
- ron b -
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-09 17:23
I just got an email from the eBay people about shutting down this guy. I added the ad copy "theft" to his list of offenses. They might remove him from selling stuff on eBay all together if he continues to try to sell stuff like this. They issued a warning to him after shutting him down. So, there are things we can do to slow down and expose internet scams if we all work together on things like this. There are a lot of honest sellers and great buys out there--check it out before you buy!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-07-09 17:26
Good work, all involved, just want to add that Intellectual Property includes patents, and they have their own sets of laws and court decisions, and with the World and European patent systems plus cooperation with our US PT[trademark}O Systems , you cant believe how complicated it can get. I just view pats from the technical standpoint, the legalities are infinite! Just wanted to sound off. Don
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-07-10 05:53
I'm just glad I could help! I'd hate to see someone think they're buying a great clarinet, only to find a 14 key indian clarinet with no way to recontact the seller!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-10 11:36
Yes, and look at the new thread from Aaron D. about the stolen Buffet E-13 that's running.
Gotta watch for that kind of stuff.
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-07-11 02:03
Ya know, he was a pretty stupid con artist in the first place. If I were to do it, I'd at least use a picture that didn't have the serial number on the paperwork in plain view. I wouldn't say it was PURPLE. I'd also not use the post "please ignore the paperwork. They're not associated with this clarinet". I'd quote the boosey website for the R-13 and have a pretty credible site.
This guy was obviously sloppy and not knowledgeable, so it was easy to catch him. Of course, I work for a bank, so I know what cons can do.
What can we do to spot the professional con? One that has a pretty credible site, good product knowledge, and a pretty "generic" photograph? I don't think there's much you can do, except report it to ebay (or wherever else). Any ideas?
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-11 02:18
You really can't worry about stopping criminals, it's a job for the Police. Report suspicious activity. For the BUYER, you have to protect yourself by following logical methods & practices.
If the person has sufficient legitimate feedback you generally won't have a problem. eBay and Paypal both offer protection to $200 in value. Above that you are on your own.
With little or no feedback, its a real problem. First call the seller.. Then, talk to the Seller. Consider options like getting credit references from a National Bank or other credit source, consider using escrow, opt for COD delivery, or make arrangements for a 3rd party in another city to make the purchase/exchange for you.
My Firm has assisted with brokering a number of eBay transactions with Sellers in Oklahoma City and Out of Town Buyers. The Out of Town Buyers slept well since they engaged my Firm which is state licensed & has national memberships. SO, there is always some option open to protect you, the buyer.
If it smells fishy, it probably is. If it's too good a deal, there is probably a reason. Let the old adage, "a sucker born every minute" apply to somebody else --- not you.
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Author: Royce
Date: 2001-07-11 05:34
I sell on Ebay, and I've had my "copy" lifted verbatim, on occasion. I was actually a little flattered that someone would use my words (maybe I should be working for an ad agency). I didn't pursue the theft of my "intellectual property"...it wasn't any sort of a scam, just somebody with an identical item up for auction who was too lazy to write their own copy! I haven't had a photo stolen yet, although I hear it's a fairly common occurrence, too.
I've seen a number of posts here lately about Ebay scammers and sour deals. As I mentioned, I sell on Ebay and have bought quite a few things there as well. Most Ebay-ers are good, honest folks, although they are sometimes uninformed about the things they sell. As mentioned above, you should throughly investigate any item you intend to bid on, and check out the seller, as well.
Royce
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-07-11 18:49
I'm very accessible as a seller. If you email me I'll give you my phone no. if you want to call and talk "in person." Most people who are selling high-dollar items are like that. I'm interested in talking to you if you're interested in my item. I want my buyers to feel comfortable buying from me because I understand what it feels like to send off a thousand or so dollars into the wild blue and hope it comes back home as my merchandise. I can also tell if what I have is right for the specific buyer or not and will advise accordingly.
I talk to you other eBay sellers occasionally (through email) and most of you are the same as me. We're just hard working clarinetists who enjoy selling clarinets and helping parents find what they're needing.
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