 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-02-13 21:07
Hello everyone.
I would like to ask about key oil.
What is recommended...
Good Brands?
Usage (where exactly)?
Frequency (how often to be applied)?
Thanks bunches.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-02-13 21:11
You should check with the local music store technician. Seems like you have plenty of questions they can answer in a sec.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-02-13 22:32
Elkwoman,
I think you'll find this surprising, but I have a whole quart of 90-weight gear oil in my shop that I bought just to oil my (handful of) clarinets. I put about a 6-year supply into a pill bottle, and I apply it small drops at a time to my clarinet using a toothpick.
A clarinet's mechanism doesn't require much lubrication, but if its allowed to go "dry in the joints" the mechanism will wear. Then the pads won't seat reliably, it will be noisy, perhaps sticky. My schedule calls for 1/2 a drop of 90-wt oil at each pivot about every 8-months or so.
Its not good to put an exccessive amount of oil on the mechanisms because it will be messy --and its not the same stuff used to "oil" the wood.
Bob Phillips
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-02-13 22:57
(Disclaimer - I sell aerospace lubricants)
When oiling - less frequently and in small amounts is better. Someone should devise and publish an oiling diagram for clarinets which shows the points of wear contact and appropriate oiling points.
Recommendations from the technicians that I know vary but once or twice a year seems to be the average with a thorough cleaning and reoiling - greasing at overhaul.
The old stand by used by technicians in the past was Nye clock oil which used to be made from sperm whale oil which has some wonderful properties and was the basis of the new synthetic oil synthesis techniques. Clocks were very prone to have evaporation of the oil which left a varnish or sludge in the mechanism which causes wear and slows down the mechanism so the properties of whale oil which does not readily evaporate or leave sludge were prized. Unfortunately with the decline of the whaling industry Nye changed formulations to a petroleum and plant oil based product which IMO is less effective.
Petroleum based products, if not used sparingly, can weep out and rot the wood around posts. Many light machine oils are based on mineral oil which does leave behind a varnish and if wood is soaked it will harm the wood structure over time. A tiny drop formed on the end of a tooth pick or with a needle tip applicator is all that is needed at each oiling point.
The new synthetic oils will not harm wood but vary in their properties. IMO the oils developed for aerospace applications make excellent key oils because they do not evaporate (a prerequisite for the vacuum of space), form a varnish or sludge, and do not change viscosity with extremes of temperature like many synthetic oils or petroleum products. Some aerospace oils have been engineered to form a molecular bond to metal increasing their lubricating and sticking properties. Since they do not evaporate they can be used more sparingly and less frequently than other petroleum based oils.
Your trusted technician is the best resource for oiling instructions.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-02-13 23:04
There are many brands of key oil and all of them work to one degree or another. Bob Phillips advice sounds reasonable.
If you want the high end stuff for a valued instrument, the Doctor's Products have generally earned a good reputation with many people who frequent this site.
He is one of the sponsors in the accessories section.
It's a little like oiling a vintage clock. A little is needed, but too much will mess things up.
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2007-02-14 02:12
My repair tech told me (when I was still playing in RSO) that quarterly oiling was sufficient. Of course, I was playing a lot - several houirs every day.
I use Doctor's Products key oil, having switched from Nye.
David
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-02-14 02:38
nye's clock oil.....still have an old can of that laying around...i remember paying like 50 bucks for it back in the 80's and though the can is rusting, it still looks as good as when i first purchased it. Moenig used it back in the day. Never new it was derived from sperm whale....that's interesting.....can't imagine it still being availabe for purchase...is it still around?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-02-14 10:08
(Disclaimer - I sell aerospace lubricants)
The Nye clock oil company was bought out, as many companies have been, and still offers a clock oil under the Nye name. Their newest oil is a totally synthetic oil. Much as the motor car oil companies offer high end synthetic oils, the Nye Company offers an "original" (however not made from sperm whale oil) and the newer synthetic product. I have tested this synthetic oil and IMO it does not compare to the more expensive aerospace lubricants used by NASA in the space program for specialty purposes such as key oil. There are over 3,000 specialty aerospace lubricants on the NASA list and many designated only by a military specification number (Mil Spec) The Nye synthetic oil will evaporate over a long period of time and does not contain anti-rust and anti-corrosion properties. There are a host of specialty clock oils on the market for different applications.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-02-14 13:39
Hi Omar et al, I have a thot to suggest, a precaution re: the "evaporation" of our various cl [and other] key oils. Since much of the lifetimes of many of our insts. are spent as storage in the cases, it seems prudent to me to avoid keeping them in the "warmer" closets? of our homes [auto's?], so seeking the "cooler" locations, IMHO, is a good idea.. The "vapor pressure" of all of our oils [natural or synthetic] is, of course, a function of composition as well as temperature [ barometric pressure plays a role in the evap. rate as well] , so some attention should be given to the components of the "blend", but I avoid being alarmed by minor differences. Have you run distillation tests [like our old ASTM's] on some of these oils? The IBP's, 50%'s and 90%'s were very informative to us re: compositon, in our [antique?] automotive lube-oil research. Just thots in the AM. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: bawa
Date: 2007-02-14 18:28
re: SMO of the above post.
Do you actually like your clarinet?
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2007-02-15 04:02
Motor oil (unused, not black stuff that's been in your car!), just like Bob said. Works great, just as good if not better than everything else.
Don't use too much, it works very well in small amounts. You shouldn't be able to see that there is a "coat" of oil on a rod/key - it should just look shiny. Use a toothpick if you're just applying quickly - You can use a Q-tip if you like to take the keys off and more evenly distribute the oil on the rods and screws, etc.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2007-02-15 07:42
10W40 motor oil has been used by me in many wood and metal instruments for at least 40 years and I have never had any problems with it. It does not evaporate or go away and it doesn't get gummy.
Years ago, a band director told me to use olive oil and it got gummy causing the mechanism to get sluggish, so never again.
Good Luck!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-15 10:24
I remember a mother bringing in her daughter's flute that had been oiled with olive oil, and all the main action keys had seized up solid. And it was a job to get the lot apart to clean it all, even leaving the keys immersed in solvent didn't shift the gum.
I use gear oil on point screws as it's much thicker.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-02-15 13:32
Thank you all for the great advice for the oil. The reason that I asked about sewing machine oil, is that this has to be one of the most refined oils ever because of what it has to do, be an oil that will not make anything sticky, gooey, etc. This has to cause the parts oiled in the machine to run swiftly, and a sewing machine can get hot, then cold, then hot when used, etc., etc.
The thing though that I know of a sew-er that chooses to re-oil her Bernina every so many hours of use (she sews a lot), and thereby; it obviously is so fluid that it does not last in the machine. Yet, it is made to make a sewing machine work beautifully.
So it made me think how wonderful this could work on an instrument.
But also, the advice about the motor or gear oil; that too would require a special use where the gears and motor would work at its best.
So, in the respect of the use of motor/gear oil for a car, this would have to also work well for tiny things, like parts on a clarinet.
I do love my ultra deal clarinet, and I want to take good care of it.
Thanks.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-02-15 14:58
While most of us have given you "what we do", I. and prob. most of us, don't disagree with your use of sewing machine, or other similarly-light oils [blends of distillate mineral oils with perhaps some minor-conc. additives]. As I have prob. said before, I prefer to add a few drops of heavier oils, like SAE 10-40, which contains some "brightstock" [solvent-refined heavy oils] to provide longer-lasting lubrication to the lighter [good quality] "machine [key] oil" . Quite a discussion above, !!! . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-02-16 03:17
put olive oil in your ears to cure an ear ache.....its called sweet oil!
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Author: Olorin
Date: 2007-02-16 03:27
yes, my teacher also recommends motor oil! strange, but the viscosity seems to be just right somehow...
do you apply with a needle?
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-02-16 04:06
hmmm...3000 speciality oils......you push this bulletin board hard enough and you will find 3000 different opinions as to what oil works best for clarinet.
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Author: bawa
Date: 2007-02-16 06:31
Having spent so much on the instrument and setup, and daughter putting in so much time and effort into playing,
I don't grudge the 4 dollars or so I spent on doctor's products key oil, which on top, appears to last and last.
Reminded me of the old saying in Spanish "saving on the parsley" (which BTW is included "free" here by fishmongers).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-16 14:55
I usually apply oil by taking the (rod) screws out and dipping the thread in oil (to collect a SMALL amount of oil), and then putting it into the key barrel - this way the thread is oiled and the oil is dispersed into the key barrel.
With point screws I put a small drop of oil on the threads before putting them in, but I also fill the countersunk ends of the keys with oil so there's a good amount of oil in there which should last well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: crelias11
Date: 2020-01-07 21:44
My music store didn't have any key oil. I went to Ace hardware and bought oil that looks like water made by Norvey. parafin based, non gumming,oxidation inhibited, with stands high temps. Doesn't really say what it is made of. I had key oil but can't find it.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-07 22:40
Well you have the Interweb. I would strongly suggest NOT using that, and order some Hetman's Heavy Key Oil ($7.50) from Woodwind Brasswind. Bill Brannen pretty much used 30 weight on all the keys. The slightly heavier oil adds smoothness to the action.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-08 00:42
I recently serviced a Yanagisawa TWO20 tenor sax and the oil on that was like treacle - really sticky and heavy stuff. I cleaned the lot out from the key barrels and rod screws and used gear oil (75w80) everywhere. The owner was shocked and remarked how much faster the action felt when she tried it after it was serviced.
I use the same gear oil everywhere on clarinets and on the point screws on oboes, piccolos and flutes (and industrial sewing machine oil on rods and pinned steels). When I see the same instruments come back for their annual service, the oil is still present (although it has turned black in that time) and hasn't gummed up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-01-08 14:05
I am not sure if it is the "right" thing to do but I am using La Tromba synthetic cork grease on the keys- it is heavy and will not leak out. I have not noticed action slowing down yet. Both clarinets are new so most of the springs are somewhat stiff - could be the reason I do not feel much difference.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-08 14:57
La Tromba is good for point screws as it's like axle grease.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-01-10 08:54
I use whatever key oil is cheapest. As a (retired) Band Director I often wondered if all that instrument oil (except bore oil) is really the same anyway. Key oil, valve oil, slide oil, etc.
I used to key and bore oil once a month for years until it seemed that consensus was that so much bore oil is harmful. Last 2+ decades I've key & bore oiled my clarinets once every 6 months. Figured that's a good compromise.
Anyway, I've owned my present Buffet for just over 20 years doing that with no joint problems at all.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-10 14:34
Not all commercially available household oils are suitable - the least suitable oil for any instrument is 3-In-1 as that contains resin which gums up the works. If you've ever had to extract rod screws or pinned steels all gummed up with that stuff, then you'll know exactly the trouble it causes.
The problem with a lot of players who know very little in what they're dealing with if a key is sluggish or binding up due to a change in humidity or a bent rod screw seem to head straight for the can of 3-In-1 and in a failed attempt to get things working, they seem to pour the entire contents of the can onto the instrument and it contaminates everything, then wonder why their key corks are dropping off and the pads are sticking to the toneholes. And then it's up to their repairer to clean the gummy residue up and depending on the severity, have to do a complete stripdown and rebuild.
Best advice is don't oil anything if you don't know what you're doing. Just because you're a player it doesn't mean you know how things work or what to do when things don't work. Don't touch anything, put the screwdriver down, leave the can of 3-in-1 where it should be (in the garden shed) and consult your repairer.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-01-11 07:04
Chris P,
Good advice. I have to admit I've played "repairman" here & there when I probably shouldn't have. Mostly because I lived 25 years in the Sub-Arctic with the nearest repairmen 500 miles away.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-01-11 07:05)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-01-11 09:33
I use mainly oils made by Alisyn, both for instruments (they have specific musical instrument oils) and gear oil for machines (lathe, mill, etc.).
The instrument oils and gear oils are different. For a start, the gear oils are yellowish and the instrument oils are all transparent.
They make oils to specs... not for me... but others who use huge amounts and have very specific needs (e.g. race cars).
So they have at least dozens of types of oils, and they make almost any type at any viscosity.
I know gear oils can work fine... but I trust this manufacturer that the oil specific to musical instruments is even better (also having used it and others for over a decade).
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