 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2009-01-31 01:46
One of the banner ads today was for the Jules Orosz finger technique method. Has anyone used it or had students use it? As an adult beginner finger control is a big issue for me. I tried the free introductory info and lesson and it seems like it could be helpful, but I'm a bit reluctant to shell out the bucks for the full method without additional info.
Thanks,
Anne
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-01-31 12:45
The site is at http://magicmusicianfingers.com/.
According to the rather gushing site, the method involves exercises away from the instrument.
He charges $117 for a 94 page book, so I'm not buying. He offers the first chapter as a free download, which might be worth trying. If anyone does, please post about it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Earl
Date: 2009-02-05 02:09
Were in the same boat. It must be new 'cause there's not much info. out there. Here's a link to a thread I found on another site. The last post is interesting. I'm going to try to remember to ask my teacher if he knows about this too.
http://www.delcamp.net/forum/en/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=35593
Not much help I know. The course is 19 weeks. That's all the Army took to take a peacefull hippy and turn him into a trained killer. Maybe I could find a drill sargent to teach me clarinet?
Lastly
"if it sounds too good to be true, It probably isn't."
Earl
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-02-05 07:02
I did not bother to click the link; the price of the book was enough for me.
Seems to me that regardless of age, simple fingering exercises repeated again and again would give you the finger training you desire. Off the top of my head, I could see simple back and forth c-d-c-d-c-d-c-d-c, working the 4th finger on the LH, and moving to each finger being as useful as any book. Of course there are endless patterns you could practice, but think about what each finger needs to accomplish, namely "it goes up and down over this hole". Well, there is no magic formula for that. You just have to do it over and over until it becomes normal.
I teach children to do this all the time. Their fingers also lack control. They succeed in this by repetition.
So here's what I recommend:
Work each finger individually, a trill exercise, starting with quarter notes and moving toward 16ths at about 120. You may not get that fast for every finger, but don't worry. Just do what you can.
Next try moving two fingers, playing 3rds. Then 3 fingers, 4 fingers, etc.
Warning! This is boring stuff! I suggest you do this with a TV on. It really doesn't take that much brain activity to do this, and you don't really have to play loudly, or at all for that matter, to accomplish this. Try this for a week or so and report back. I bet it will work. Good luck!
david
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-02-05 07:07
Okay, I clicked the site... and here's what I saw:
"The Single Most Important Element to Playing Any Style of Music on Any Woodwind Instrument is Your Ability to Coordinate ANY Fingering Combination Instantly, Accurately and at ANY Speed !"
This is just silly... Try playing "The Miraculous Mandarin" instantly at any speed. riiiiiiight...
BTW, my method is also guaranteed to work. People have been doing it my way for hundreds of years.
Post Edited (2009-02-05 07:40)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2009-02-06 09:10
Well, I'd probably charge $117 too if I had written a book that I intended to hype to death and reel in a windfall from the suckers before the word got out. It's probably the equivalent of slapping $$$ down at the Scientology center to exorcise space aliens from your soul.
Or maybe slap out $50 for a 6-fret section of guitar fingerboard designed to let you 'practice' while maintaining no feeling of holding a real instrument or getting no feedback in terms of pitch from what you're doing. (or $20 for a 'finger exerciser' that you work instead of fingering the instrument)
If you really need a big book of written exercises, and aren't satisfied with Klose and Baermann, how about Buddy DeFranco's "Hand-in-Hand with Hanon"? It's thick, it's expensive (but nothing like the mystery book) and at least its based on exercises that some good players actually respect.
Allen Cole
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-02-06 19:11
I agree with David for the most part with regard to the right hand. One really only moves fingers up and down (well pinkies mover "around" but this is an easy movement), and yes, you can do this while watching TV - I do.
However, the left hand does have some problems. For example, IN MY VIEW, the first finger moves LATERALLY up to the "A" key in addition to up and down for chalameau "E" to "F."
Now, while the first finger moves laterally, you must coordinate the second finger moving up simultaneously and your thumb EITHER moving up (away from the thumb hole) OR down (onto the octave key). This bit of coodination is the core to many of MY technique issues and is certainly more than just moving your fingers up and down.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: sdr
Date: 2009-02-06 23:17
Wow! Pretty harsh response from from a crowd who've not used the method. According to the advertising, the "course" is $117 for 15 lessons. What do you all charge for a lesson? More than $19.50, I suspect. As the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If Mr. Orosz has a method that is useful to some students why would you slam him so? Just because it's not the way you learned? Just because it's not the way you teach? Because he's seeking to make some money on his ideas and you didn't think of it first? I can understand and support condemnation of someone promoting bad practices or spreading misinformation, but this sort of reactionary conservatism is disappointing, to say the least.
-sdr
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-02-07 06:55
Could we not also tease the idea buying a Baermann or Klose book? Scales, skips, major, minor, etc.?
Are there any patterns in there that make you fall out of your chair with shock? Probably not, but people buy it.
The value lies in the fact that it's all there to be seen without having to think up the patterns and write them out yourself. The (possible) value of this method is no different- he's thought of it a written it out so you don't have to. Not a bad concept.
It still looks like there are none in this thread that have tried it.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2009-02-07 08:11
Well, sdr, we may be overlooking the possibility of a real breakthrough with this new method, but I don't think I'd play the price of real flying lessons to a guy who's going to tell me to flap my arms.
And yes, I do charge more than 19.50 for a lesson, but that's for personal instruction specifically addressing the students' individual needs. Not for giving a group of people general advice in a clinic.
It's hard to imagine a facet of clarinet technique that hasn't already been beaten to death.
Again, it sounds to me like the stuff is priced high because the author doesn't expect it to sell well over the coming years.
I'd love for my opinion to be more informed, but not at that price.
Allen Cole
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-02-07 08:19
Both the Baermann and Klose can be had for under $20 without outlandish claims of instant ability at any speed. So yes, I will make fun.
Next up: The Billy Mays Miracle Clarinet Method; call in the next 20 min and we'll give you two for the price of one with the bonus steak knives!
(if you don't know who Billy Mays is, then just do a search on youtube)
Post Edited (2009-02-07 08:22)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-10-09 20:48
Well many months have passed since this was raised - so has anyone actually TRIED this method???
ps. price now seems to be lower -$28 for one series and $50 for a second (linked?) series, this is for downloaded material so don't know if the original items were hardcopy or not.
pps. I think he is actually a she.
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Author: abstruse_melisma
Date: 2009-10-10 04:50
Personally, for my money I'd just invest in a couple lessons with a good teacher who can actually observe your finger movement. No amount of exercises will improve your playing if you exhibit problematic posture, finger position, or strange/excessive motion in your fingers. These are things you can see in a mirror and really get a feel for by practicing legato "slow" fingers with long tones, but for those times when you lose focus during a piece, it's nice to have someone there to help catch you. Also, for that price you could add the tried and true Baermann pt. 3 to your lessons, which has done wonders for clarinetists since the 1800s. I don't think a new method will be a panacea for anyone's technique. The practice you apply towards the technique itself is much more important, and you can think about those same principles whilst playing anything. I'm fond of the Jean Jean Vade-Mecum du Clarinetiste and the Uhl 48 Etuden.
Devin T.B. Langham
Clarinet Performance Major
Michigan State University
interlude
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2010-01-10 20:43
The price of this is down considerably now:-
<QUOTE>
You can now own my 472 short, focused
and progressively difficult exercises
contained in Two Books, 274 pages in total
for the one low price of $ 24.75 US dollars.
You will save $ 74.75 from my normal
selling price on my web site !
So act quickly as this offer will expire
one week from today.
</QUOTE>
Still doesn't seem that anyone here has tried it. I can't see that cost would be an objection any more.
My objections are 1) that if I am going to do something like this I would need to make a commitment to it and I'm not sure that I could to this and 2) wouldn't my time be better spent reading music notation instead of another set of diagrams and putting my fingers into real clarinet playing combinations?
Tony
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2010-01-10 21:07
Well if anyone ever spends $117.50 on the pdf file, let me know! Maybe tapping your fingers actually work! Who knows. The book might not be a complete waste of money.
To me it looks like he got those excersises from a basic piano book and simply transposed the notes to finger numbers.
So I guess the whole point of him doing that book is to tell you to play the piano which will improve your fingers in a magical way.
At least thats what I got from reading his short excerpt.
Post Edited (2010-01-10 21:34)
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2010-01-10 21:39
If you download the sample you are offered it for 24.75 USD.
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Author: DixieSax
Date: 2010-01-10 22:24
I've been laid up from playing for the past 6 weeks with a case of Bells Palsy that has left me unable to control my embouchure. Needing something to do, I acquired this program, and I have to say, the guy put some serious effort into it.
I'm using these exersizes to keep my technique in order until I'm able to return to actually playing my instrument. I can see where these would be worthwhile for someone if they are in a situation where they are unable to play their instrument for a period of time, or are in need of specific work on finger technique without bringing all the other requirements of playing clarinet into play.
At the lower price these are going for now, it's a no brainer, although the original price was definitely way too steep.
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2010-01-11 07:37
"Where does it say I can get it for 24.95?"
A. You have to sign up for the Free Lessons and Overview. Then you get the offer in an email.
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2010-01-11 13:45
The more I think of it, the less of a good idea this seems to me - nothing to do with cost. But as I said before why teach your brain and your fingers to follow a notation other than standard music notation and clarinet fingerings?
I have a set of books called Lenguaje Musical Ritmico (http://www.sibemol.es/tienda/index.php?cPath=23_24) which are utterly brilliant - in my opinion. Admittedly the theory lessons are in Spanish but all the rest is just music notation. There are 6 books with 150+ exercises in each with all the rhythms and fingering combinations to keep you busy for quite a while; and I find them fun to play. I expect (and hope) that the experienced players here would be able to romp through them but I am still trying to get to end end of Book 2 after 15 months. And even when you finish a book you can go back and do them all faster!
I think I'll stick with this.
Tony
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2010-01-12 05:20
Well I made the purchase to check it out. So far its not as "magical" as it says it is. There's no "instant" improvement. I still play the same and sound the same as before I used it. I guess the concept kind of makes sense but the difference doesn't seem that dramatic in practical use. I guess it will take time to develop just like regularly practicing on the instrument.
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Author: jhndgls
Date: 2013-08-25 05:57
Pretty sure Jules Orósz is a "she", not a "Mr." :
https://magicmusicianfingers.com/About.html
John Douglas
Post Edited (2013-08-25 06:00)
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Author: skelly818
Date: 2020-01-09 20:05
I actually did purchase the Technique from Ms. Jules Orosz and have been using it to recover from the effects of a bad stroke from 10 yrs ago. I thought i would never play again. After that event i had almost no left hand control at all. Doctors said I would not recover any more facility after about a year, but as usual the Doctors were wrong. Recently I started reading about advances in Neuro Plasticity and became hopeful again that I could regain my high level playing ability again. Then just recently I found the Orosz Technique and I started slowly on just exercise #1. It is more challenging, if done correctly, than you might think. The results is with doing slow scale studies and Orosz I have recovered substantially, about 95% facility in less than a year so I'm very optimistic this is a winning strategy for me. The left-hand index finger for Flute needs alot of individual attention as it does not really work from the 1st knuckle joint as Orosz suggests, rather it's the 2nd joint. However the Orosz technique, helps overall even the flute index finger. The Technique focuses on strong nerve signal isolation, and the highly neglected fine muscles for the lifting of the fingers. Speed is not used for the first two exercise forms. Speed comes in later lessons. I hear the doubters, and nay sayers... but i can tell you 100% if Orosz can help me so much in my situation, it's got to be very useful for the average player. Feel free to write if you wish to chat further. Note: i have no affiliation with Jules Orosz and do not participate financially in any way with her.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-01-09 20:44
This sounds interesting to me, with my biologist hat on, but the website seems not to be working now.
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