 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Joseph O'Kelly
Date: 2001-06-09 02:52
I currently own a Buffet Festival clarinet. I needs to be pinned and adjusted as well as have some cork pads put on it. I payed $2500 for it brand new. I am being loaned a R-13 to use in the meantime. I think the R-13 plays better than the Festival, (not sure yet as my Festival is in no condition for a side by side comparison yet) The store owner sayed I could trade in the Festival for the R-13 if I wanted. If the R-13 does play better should I do it? My Festival is still in great conditon exept to logo on the top joint is begining to wear off a little. How much would a Festival (one year old) with 2 pinned cracks, cork pads on upper joint go for? Would this be a fair trade? The R-13 was definatly play tested before as some of the pads are turning brown.
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Author: ???
Date: 2001-06-09 03:48
I think it is not a fair trade! You can buy A brand new R-13 for 1500. You bought your festival for 2500. It has some problems. So now it is worth about 1800-2000. You said that the R-13 has been play tested because of the brownish tint on the pads. Which would probably make it worth a little less, say 1400. If you look at it like this, you would probably resist taking him up on the offer! Who knows, you could probably sell it on ebay for about 2,000, keep that extra 500 that would have been profit for that man that tried to sell it to you!
Smile! :-)
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Author: clar21
Date: 2001-06-09 04:22
Yes, I would keep the R-13. Here's my story:
I bought an R-13 a year ago, but it cracked on me. The crack never really bothered me until February. So, I went to Weiner's and with a good setup and good knowledge in tone quality, I picked an R-13 that as made a world of difference for me!
Instead of having poor tone quality now, I have a tone that is rich in overtones and is very pleasing to the ear. I have been complimented numerous times by my professors on how much better I sound. The better tone has also increased my confidence when I give solos. I am no longer "afraid" to strut my stuff.
There is also the possibility that when you get your Festival back that it will crack again. My teacher had this happen to her pinned clarinet 5 times. You can never be 100% sure that nothing will happen.
I would go with the R-13 because you seem to be happier with it. As long as you're happy and you think it's good...
Good luck,
Clar21
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-06-09 06:14
After having my Evette Master about 30 years my feeling is get whatever horn makes you sound best and stick with it. If you find a plastic Vito which sounds better than anything else the stay with it. In 30 years the money you paid won't make any difference to you.
If the R-13 sounds better it would be a foolish choice to stick with a lesser quality sound because it is a more expensive horn. What you loose in value you make up in sound... besides the value of a horn is a totally frivolous detail if you are keeping it to play.
Just IMHO.
Terry
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Author: Gene Wie
Date: 2001-06-09 11:08
I second Terry's point here.
I realize we all don't have the financial freedom to just go with whatever we want (in the ideal world we'd play on the best sounding instruments we could find, without considering price or resale value), but in retrospect, I'd have to say that any serious musician would pay more money for a used R-13 that played very well compared to a Festival that didn't play as well as that R-13.
Really, it isn't the model, the brand, the name, etc...it's the overall feel and sound of the horn. I've got a buddy with an old Leblanc LL to die for. He picked it up for $400 a few years ago, and it plays better than a lot of new instruments that I've tried (and in searching for instruments I've made a huge run through the Buffet and Leblancs).
As for the trade, tell the store owner you'll do the trade if he tosses in, say, a Yamaha student alto sax. =)
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Author: Daniel
Date: 2001-06-09 11:42
Yes, do the deal. You would be hard pressed to get $2000 on ebay or anywhere for a cracked and repaired festval. The dealer is doing you a favor.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-06-09 13:36
Um, new horns crack too.
Be conservative, get both horns together with a disinterested third party listening.
Which horn do you suppose the dealer will tell you sounds better?
You can betcher sweet Aunt Nannie's fanny that they will sell your Festival (hideous cracks and all) for considerably more than the purchase price.
This prejudice against cracked instruments is ludicrous.
Spend your money on lessons and reeds, things that will actually improve your playing over time.
yeesh
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-09 14:27
I agree that you should do the trade if you really like the R-13 and feel ok about the deal ( I don't know everything you've discussed with your dealer). Selling on ebay can make you crazy (I just lost $1,500.00 on a Leblanc Symphonie VII and am swearing off selling good stuff on eBay). So, you never know about what you'll get on eBay. My Symphonie was only 5 mos. old and perfect, no cracks. Cracks are a no-no with buyers. They'll shy away and you won't get anywhere near what you need for your Festival.
Also, having a good relationship with a local dealer is a good thing if he'll give you a reasonable deal. I don't know where you can get a good R-13 for $1,500.00, so don't go off in search of a bottom line price like that. Look for a good instrument with a deal you can live with and do the deal. I just bought a new R-13 at my local dealer for $1,798.00 (he matched the Brook Mays website), and he let me play all he had in stock until I found the best one. Also, he takes good care of me when I come in. I found a flaw in the bell and he traded it out for me. Adjustments, etc are no problem since all I have to do is drive across town. I can even go up to the repairman's shop and show him the problem.
So, some things can't be measured in dollars and cents--just sense.
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Author: Jeff Forman
Date: 2001-06-09 16:26
I agree that the issue is not the money, it's the horn. I have traded two instruments in my life for a loss in dollars but a gain in pleasure. I had a beautiful Yamaha guitar that was simply too big for my liking. I took it to my local bluegrass shop and traded it for a 00 sized Sigma (a lesser brand, to be sure-Martin's Japanese model) And the difference in price was about $150. But I knew that the Yamaha would stay in the closet and the Sigma would get played. I figured that they are in business to make a buck or two on the sale of instruments, and I am not.
Then, I had a Selmer Signet 100 clarinet which I hated - it was hard to blow, the feel just wasn't right, maybe it just wasn't the right piece of wood for me. I went to Music Go Round and they had a Signet for $350 and a Langenus for $250. I'd never heard of the Langenus (he's the guy who did all of those instruction method books in the 30's, I think, and this was a clarinet made by someone else and they put a Langenus name on it - that's called a stencil) Anyway, I love the horn, it is free blowing, has a rich tone and just feels right. So I traded her even up. For me, the point is that I would rather have the instrument I want and like instead of the money. I guess there are limits - such as trading a Festival even up for a Vito. There, I might sell the festival privately and buy the Vito. But if the amount of money is not so great that it is a ludicrous exchange, I agree that the relationship you build with a local shop is much more important than a couple of hundred bucks plus the hassle of doing the sale yourself.
Jeff
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Author: ???
Date: 2001-06-09 17:06
The woodwinds and brasswinds is a highle respectable dealer Brenda! They are offering a special on the R-13 for 1495!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-06-09 19:38
I personally would spend the extra 300 bucks and buy local. When you need your horn the next day and there's a problem - even FedEx won't work if you have to send it out. Patronizing your local shop and letting them get to know you can really save the day.
But - given $500 difference, I'd probably go another route and rent a horn locally given an emergency - or make sure I was good friends with a repairperson locally, even knowing I'd have to pay for something that's possibly covered under warrantee.
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Author: Carl L
Date: 2001-06-09 22:30
I traded a Conn Eb tuba in for a "better" horn- 22 years ago. I still miss that horn...
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-10 14:23
<<The woodwinds and brasswinds is a highle respectable dealer Brenda! They are offering a special on the R-13 for 1495!>>
Yes, wwandbw is a very respectable dealer. I just didn't know about their sale. I would certainly give them a try if I were looking for a great buy on an R-13.
But, this time I decided I wanted to go where I could actually play the instrument before buying it and compare to others since I had had such bad experiences with R-13s in the past. But, as an orchestra player I really needed a good orchestral instrument that "played well with others." So, because so many people I play with in the various places and situations play Buffets, the R-13 was a reasonable choice.
So, go do the wwandbw thing and see what happens. You can always return instruments to them. However, if you do it a lot you'll eat up your savings in shipping! But, I agree they are a very respectable dealer. I buy from them all the time.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-11 00:38
No offense intended to anybody BUT:
Brenda said:
"Cracks are a _NO-NO_ with buyers."
-------------------------
Take that as gospel. Here we have a horn which someone might be selling with 2 pinned cracks. $1800-2000 in value ??? Soryry, but that is in comebody's dreams. It will NEVER happen. Run and make this trade is the new horn portends a good sound for you.
Anji said:
"The prejudice against cracked clarinets is ludicrous."
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Very possibly correct. However, I am sorry that I will have to let you fight that battle. Instruments speak for themselves. I dare somebody to sell a nice Festival 2X-pinned for any significant amount ... it won't happen. AND, if it did somebody might complain later that they were taken advantage of. Stcik with "only good" stories, avoid "good & bad, which do you want to hear first".
Best,
mw
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Author: William
Date: 2001-06-11 01:09
Its simple--I would always trade for an instrument if it played better than the one in my hands. You just have to sure that it does.................good luck.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-11 16:24
Couldn't agree more with William. Don't ever trade for a horn that isn't better than the one you already have. Trading one problem is worse than treading water!
Best,
mw
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-06-11 20:46
I would be happy to buy a vintage instrument with a repaired crack for a bargain price. If it's vintage and hasn't cracked further, I'd figure It had gotten the stress out of its' system and was ready to act right. A new Festival, however, . . . that I'm not sure of. The selling price would have to be dirt cheap to get my attention.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-11 21:49
Fred, thats it ... I hope everybody is listening. You said _"BARGAIN PRICE".
Exactly. I can buy a new Buffet Festival for $2,195 at Brook Mayes & a number of other places. So do you consider $1,800 - $2,000 to be a BARGAIN ?
Someone is going to be thinking less than a $1,000.
Case in point: approx. 2 y/o Buffet R-13 on eBay w/pinned crack in U/J, otherwise supposedly quite nice (no wear, etc.) Opening Bid (no reserve) at $850. Last I looked the auction was almost over, NO BIDS- NO TAKERS!
Now, everybody wants a good deal. Will that horn sell for $550-600 ... YES. People have a phobia about cracks & want insurance in the form of a lower price when buying. Then, if they have to have (further) repairs .. they have it "escrowed" in the form of a lower price.
Best,
mw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-15 14:41
Yes, the key is the "bargain price" if an instrument has been pinned, or if it has a hairline crack of any kind--or if it looks like it might crack.
The first thing someone asks me when I have a clarinet on eBay is, "Has it ever been cracked?" Even if it's a new instrument! I call it "crack-o-phobia." Buyers all suffer from it. It'll kill the resale price every time. So, go low on price on cracked instruments--don't buy them unless you're in love with them and want to keep them. I don't buy them--period.
So, take the deal and run.
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