 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Jerome
Date: 2002-02-08 15:49
What is the difference between an E11 & E13??
Are they worth purchasing from a purveyor of fancy goods, in the key of A?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: James
Date: 2002-02-08 17:39
The difference between the E11 and the E13 is a significant difference. The E11 is the lowest level wood clarinet you can get, and the E13 being of the highest quality intermediate clarinet avalible. But personally i think that if anyone is considering the E13, they shouldn't because the R13 isn't that much more expensive and it is of great quality.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: janlynn
Date: 2002-02-08 18:08
james - that doesnt really tell what the differeces are tho - what is it that makes the E13 of higher quality than the E11? this is not for me, but for the poster.
JL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joseph O'Kelly
Date: 2002-02-08 19:58
The E11 is made in Germany while the E-13 is made by france. The e-11 is essentially the b-12 plastic model made in wood (from my comparisons.) Quite frankly i think the Germany Buffets (made by Shrieber) have intonation problems. I can not say this is a prooven problem but it's what i've seen recently on some of these Buffets recently. One of the problems is the short barrel provided with them. I think they're a .63-.64. I tried one with longer barrels of .65 and .66 and yet i still regester at about 15 cents sharp. I certanly do not have this problem on my personal instruments. This is the problem with my brothers b-12.
My friend has a International clarinet and has to pull way out on the center joint. He told me his tuning tendencies on this instrument and it was quite strange. This guy has a good ear for tuning so I trust this is pretty accurate.
The Germany Buffets, however (especially on the international) have nice tone and ecxcelent key design. My fingers just glide over them. I think the keys are plated better.
I think the e-13 is almost an equivlence of the old Master Models or academy models. Practacly r-13s that just didn't make the cut. I have not played an e-13 but do own an older master model and imho it is the best clarinet i've played thus far and I've played MANY. I have people who will back me up. This however applys to this specific clarinet. There were some great MMs out there and some dogs out there. I've played some of both.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iván Martínez
Date: 2002-02-08 22:10
I have a E12, and it's better than E11... some one say the R13 is better than E12, yes, but the R13 is a professional model, and E11 and E12 a student model. And the price of R13 is diferent, too. For principiants students are better the E11 o E12, and for intermediate students are better the R13 or Festival model. I think.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lindsey Ondrey
Date: 2002-02-09 17:36
I play the E--11 and it has beautiful tone quality and I love the ways the keys are placed, etc. I have very few problems with it running sharp (though on large change in temp/ humidity days I do have to compensate some though I think this is true for all clarinets to watch for). I have never played the E-13 but I have played quite a few other intermediate and professional models on loan and loved this one above quite a few (the others being extremely out of my price range when I came to purchasing a new clarinet last year).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-02-09 21:55
Both the E-11 and E-13 are student level instruments. This means that they will not have as many features as an R-13 and will eventually need to be replaced when the student advances. I would stick with buying an R-13 for its superb tone quality and its ease of response. Besides, it is a clarinet that an older, high school student can grow into. Meaning, that although it may be resistant at the time, the student can find the right combination for them and be happy with their tone quality without saying "I need a new clarinet!"
If a student were to go and choose to buy a higher level clarinet, they should take a teacher with them to be sure that the clarinet is the best for them.
Good luck,
Kim L.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-10 02:07
Kim,
Can you be more specific? What features does the R13 have that the E13 does not? Also, if a student must eventually replace an E13 with an R13 as s/he advances, won't that student eventually have to replace the R13 with a Prestige Elite?
Just curious,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-02-10 04:49
The E13 is definitely grendallia and definitely has all of the features as the R13. However, the wood of the E13 is not as carefully selected and the clarinets are not as well made as the R13's are. This means that the E13 will have tonal problems and will not feel as stable as the R13.
No, a student would not have to replace an R13 with a Prestige Elite unless they were truly interested in doing so. The R13 is a superb instrument with all the features that any student would want. The R13 has a warm tone quality and blends in to ensemble situations. With the correct mouthpiece, reed, and ligature combination, the R13 sounds phenomenal.
Kim L.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rene
Date: 2002-02-10 11:37
This question strikes me, because I too wanted to know, what the real difference between R13 and, say a E13 are. The answers are all somewhat vague, like better quality wood and better made keys. I wonder, if anyone could list the specific differences. I compared them once but dare not make a list of my own due to technical ignorance.
As to intonation. I own a B12, which playes very well in tune to 442 Hz with the original Barrel and a ggod moughpiece (I am using the M13 Lyre).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-02-10 15:02
Kim,
Are your comparisons based on personal experience? If so, could you please describe the comparisons you've made?
Also, it seems to me that if there are clarinetists who won't outgrow an R13, there must be some who won't outgrow an E13, or an E11, or a B12 (probably alot of these). Not everyone who takes up the clarinet in 4th or 5th grade will become a college performance major. Isn't their optimal clarinet a matter of the level to which they aspire? Frankly, if you look at the Buffet website, it's hard to identify the differences between the E13 and the R13. What is the difference between "selected grenadilla" and "carefully selected grenadilla," for example. How precise is the selection process? as precise as the process for "hand selecting" Vandoren reeds? In the past, Buffet has claimed that the primary difference between the two models was that the R13 received more hand finishing. Is that still true? What kind of hand finishing? Are there differences in the bore? (in the past the R13 and E13 had the same bore design. Is this still true?) Is there enough difference to warrant spending the difference between an R13 and an E13 (about $300 -- $400 street price, maybe not a significant amount to you but certainly a significant amount for many parents) or the difference between an R13 and an E11 ($1,000+ street price)? If someone aspires to play in a community orchestra and has $1800 to spend, are they better off buying an R13 Bb or an E11 Bb and an E11A with enough money left over for a really good mouthpiece? I submit that the decision is not as cut-and-dried as you would like us to believe.
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-02-10 16:19
No, it is not based on personal experience. However, a clarinet player in my college is playing on an E13 and it is now very sharp for her. I played on an E11 and the clarinet eventually became extremely sharp for me. Now that I am playing on an R13, I am very happy, and have been able to adjust to it slowly to the point that I like everything about it.
I'm not sure how carefully selected the grenadilla is for each of the clarinets.
I think that if someone could find an instrument that they were pleased with, yes, an E11 or E13 with a pro grade mouthpiece would be suitable over buying an R13. However, if the person were aspiring to be a music major, I would recommend an R13 with a pro grade mouthpiece after the student learned about embouchure formation and tone quality.
Kim L.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Shipley
Date: 2002-02-10 16:25
I just found a really old clarinet marked LP with an A over a B and Buffet Crampon Aparis. I don't know where to look on a clarinet for a serial number, but there does not seem to be one. Would this clarinet have been made by Auguste Buffet since his initials are on it? Or would all the early instruments bear his initials?
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-02-10 19:32
Jack....I guess it's pretty clear now. All we have to do is find out where they get that grenadilla wood.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim L.
Date: 2002-02-10 20:40
Grenadilla is found in I believe Africa or South America. The selection of the wood is dependent on the trunk on the tree. Certain places of the trunk are stronger than others meaning that the wood is going to be more carefully selected for premium instruments versus just professional instruments.
Kim L.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: I. Corry
Date: 2002-02-12 15:15
Kim is right on here. Grenadilla can be found growing in billets along the west coast of Africa and the east coast of South America. At one time, the major French and German clarinet manufacturers used to shut down production for the month of August and send selected and carefully selected employees to these locations to search for the choicest wood. (Usually, there was enough for everybody but once, during a shortage, fighting broke out between groups from Wurlitzer and Selmer which became known as the "Bore Wars," but that's another story.) They would bring the wood back in trunks, some of which were stronger than others and hence could carry the more dense (heavier), more select wood. As Kim points out, the best wood comes from the strongest trunks. Now, however, most clarinet makers buy their wood from suppliers who ship it in pallettes. This is probably the reason the wood isn't as good anymore -- it's almost impossible to tell which billets the pallettes come from and they aren't aged enough either. (Neither, sad to say are the employees.) This probably explains any problems in tone and intonation people have that can't be solved by a professional mouthpiece (i.e, one made from hard rubber which also grows in Africa and can be matched particularly well to African grenadilla both for tonal characteristics and color -- if the right dye is used).
BTW, there are a couple of professional mouthpieces in our orchestra but, when they aren't in court, one plays oboe and the other plays violin.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-02-12 16:19
I. Corry said:
>one made from hard rubber which also grows in Africa
???? Hard rubber grows in Africa? ????
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2002-02-12 16:36
???? Hard rubber grows in Africa? ????
It must be at the Mattel rubber forest...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: I. Corry
Date: 2002-02-12 17:30
"Hard rubber grows in Africa?"
Of course -- on hard rubber trees. Where did you think it comes from? ("Just what made that little ole' ant ...") Actually, though the hardest rubber comes from the gum of Grenadilla trees. That's why, sometimes, when they get too hot during marching band season, grenadilla clarinets turn into ebonite. Then they really lose their tone.
the Professor
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DonN.
Date: 2017-09-29 18:18
I have been playing an R-13 for many years. I have a trial E-13 in my possession right now, and I cannot tell the difference. I even took both clarinets to my school's physics lab to weigh them. They are nearly identical. The keywork appears to be the same. They both have undercut tone tone holes. The Grenadilla wood is similar. I read somewhere that the E-13 is an R-13 that for some cosmetic reason didn't make the cut. I don't know for sure, but I really like the E-13.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tkillian
Date: 2017-10-01 19:49
I have a vintage È-11...it says made in France
sounds almost as good as my 1950s R13
Post Edited (2017-10-01 19:50)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-10-02 01:09
tkillian wrote:
> I have a vintage È-11...it says made in France
>
> sounds almost as good as my 1950s R13
>
>
> Post Edited (2017-10-01 19:50)
I thought all early E11s were made in Germany by Schreiber. Are you sure it's an E11?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jthole
Date: 2017-10-03 13:57
It surprises me that the keywork of the E13 would be the same as on the professional clarinets; in my experience there are some differences.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
