 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sum Randumb D00d
Date: 2017-04-01 21:19
Is it safe to say that modern Bass clarinets are generally going to be polycylindrical?
And, if so, does anyone know when polycylindrical Bass clarinet production began in earnest, historically?
My understanding is that Robert Carree was experimenting with polycylindrical bores circa the 1951 to 1955 timeframe, and then circa 1955, Buffet switched almost all of their professional soprano clarinet production over to polycylindrical, as the new "R-13" model, in A & Bb.
But was something similar happening with the "Harmony" clarinets, like the Bass clarinets?
PS: I searched and searched the archives, and there are a bazillion pages on polycylindrical Soprano clarinets, but I couldn't find anything anywhere concerning polycylindrical Bass clarinets.
PPS: I guess the same question could be asked of the Eb sopranino clarinets - if and or when they switched over to polycylindrical...
Thanks.
jus sayin
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-04-02 07:56
>> Is it safe to say that modern Bass clarinets are generally going to be polycylindrical? <<
No, it's extremely dangerous...
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2017-04-02 16:05
In the future all bass clarinets will be produced the shape of an English Horn (which is neither English nor a horn) bell, and will use trumpet-style valves rather than keys. Such is the march of progress, even though it is now April.....
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Author: Sum Randumb D00d
Date: 2017-04-03 21:26
Okay, April Fool's Day aside: Does anyone know the history of polycylindrical-ism in the "Harmony" clarinets?
Especially the Bass clarinets? [Or the Eb sopraninos, or anything else?]
For instance, when we're hunting for vintage soprano clarinets [in Bb or A], we know that if the serial number on a Buffet dates it to 1955 or later, and if the throat tone G# and A use four posts, rather than three, then we're probably dealing with an R13 and a polycylindrical bore.
But are there similar things to look for in a Bass clarinet - are there similar historical points at which Bass clarinet technology turned the corner and became something worth seeking out?
Thanks.
jus sayin
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-04-03 22:46
Dood,
Are you asking this question for any specific reason other than curiosity?
The reason I ask is I'm a retired professor and am very accustomed to students getting out on the edge of known research trying to develop a hypothesis of sort. What often happens is they find out one of several things:
1. There is little data or related literature available about the problem.
2. They have taken a grand leap into an area for a possible research project that is "really far out there" on the edge of what is know about clarinets.
3. The "No One Other Then Me Cares About This" barrier blocks their path.
Anything above apply here?
HRL
PS Successful research most often starts with a problem statement.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2017-04-03 22:56
FWIW, in all my fooling-around with bass clarinets I have never encountered one that had anything other than a constant-diameter cylindrical bore (including the curved neck) all the way down to (typically) a light flare out just above the bell (but even this not always).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-04-04 10:53
The only basses I know of that had the flared lower joint bore are B&H Imperial basses.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Sum Randumb D00d
Date: 2017-04-04 19:04
Well I did a lot more scrolling through the archives last night.
The consensus seems to be that the horns from the 1950s & 1960s had the most beautiful tone colors, but that the modern horns play much better in tune [and tend to have much better keywork - or at least much less finicky keywork].
That seems to be the case everywhere in the industry today - from French Horns to Oboes and beyond - the tonal colors peaked circa the 1950s & 1960s, but nowadays everyone plays impeccably perfect intonation on drab uninspiring horns which are sonorously dead.
I also couldn't find anything like a "1955 Robert Carree" moment for the Bass Clarinets - i.e. an epiphanous point in time when everything changed.
Although Clark Fobes was very critical of the changes which Selmer made to the 33 Bass, circa 1983, so if you have $5000 [or $7500] to spend on the project, then you want a pre-1983 33.
And the modern horns, with the Low C and the impeccably perfect intonation, are gonna run ya $10,000 to $15,000.
jus sayin
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Author: Sum Randumb D00d
Date: 2017-04-04 20:19
"The only basses I know of that had the flared lower joint bore are B&H Imperial basses."
Yeah, when I was reading one of the old threads last night, a girl named Caroline Smale was recommending the Imperial.
I actually follow the Boosey listings - I've been thinking about getting a big bore 1010/Symphony - but I have NEVER seen a Bass clarinet from Boosey.
I also don't think I've ever seen an Eaton [in any size - Soprano or Bass].
It gibes with something someone was saying in the archives - when a great horn shows up, it gets snatched real fast, and then disappears for 30 or 40 or 50 years.
jus sayin
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Author: donald
Date: 2017-04-05 16:29
I'm not sure Caroline Smale will be too happy about being called "a girl" but she's not alone in liking the B+H bass clarinets. They are hard to find, but very good instruments.
My bass is a Buffet from 1933 and it sounds much more colourful and rich than modern basses... but even with some extra rollers and re sized register vents etc does not play close to the modern bass in terms of eveness of tone quality and intonation. I don't care, I'll play my old grandpa anyday!
Post Edited (2017-04-05 16:30)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2017-04-05 20:05
Hi It's OK Dim and Donald, I'm now 79, totally non-PC, and being called a girl just made my day.
And yes I love my B&H bass clarinet, which is the version with he extra extension to low C (removable so can play as Eb or C) and which I bought some years back from the now retired principal clarinet of the English National Opera orchestra.
The passing across the break and ease of speaking and tone quality in the clarion register, where so many basses seem hollow and weak, is superb.
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