 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2017-03-23 02:55
Do wavy reed tips cause squeaking and poor playing performance? I read that they did. What do you do about it. I see where players have never heard of soaking reeds and only lick them. Others soak in water warm or cold and various other solutions and lengths of time. Never seen so many different ways of doing things that seem to work for different people.
But I see a group of my reeds do in fact have wavy tips and do in fact squeak and not play as well as they did.
I have seen some players sand the bottom of reed and say warm water soak for a few minutes removes the wavy tips, making them straight across.
What do you recommend trying if squeaky reeds and wavy tips? At least to begin with.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-03-23 03:05
The reeds usually get wavy as they dry (too little humidity, and dry too quickly). There's a whole world of discussions (and products) pertaining to how to prevent them from becoming wavy in the first place...it's another one of those issues in which everyone comes to some determination of what works best individually.
However, once a reed is wavy, (I used to have this problem with my Tenor sax reeds), all I ever did was hold the reed in my mouth while I assembled my sax (a few seconds at most), and then pressed the reed tip between my thumb and a flat surface (normally my reed table) for a few seconds.
Fuzzy
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2017-03-23 03:50
BGBG:
I've used many methods to store reeds but for the past 10 years I've used the Rico Reed case (which maintains humidity) and never had this problem again.
Good luck!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-03-23 05:07
A wavy tip means the cane is too dry. It will squeak and sound noisy until it becomes evenly moist across the whole tip area.
The two previous posts have given you the two basic ways to deal with this:
Either
(1) take more time before you try to play on a reed to wet it. If needed, press the reed tip with your thumb against a flat surface (glass, the mouthpiece table, etc.), which forces the water into the cane and distributes the moisture evenly. You don't need to wet the reed any longer than it takes to straighten out (which it will), or
(2) don't let the reed ever dry out completely by keeping it in some kind of humidity-controlled holder. You can use a fancy (pricey) cigar humidor or buy the humidity packs sold by Boveda (a cigar humidifier company) or by Rico as "Reed Vitalizer" (same as the Boveda humidity packs but more expensive). Keep the reeds (or your whole assembled mouthpiece) wrapped in a plastic bag to hold the humidity (moisture) in.
Most of the debate is over the advantages and disadvantages of keeping your reeds in a consistently humidified condition. As to how long to wet a dry reed, the answer is to wet it until the tip un-wrinkles and the reed plays well.
Karl
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-03-23 06:22
Yes, wavy reeds can cause problems when you play on them; squeaking or stuffiness, at least. Personally, I always carry a 1" x 3" piece of plexiglass, or whatever they use now instead, in my case. Rather than guess whether there's a problem, every time I put a reed on the mouthpiece, I get it wet in water (my saliva seems to be harder on reeds than many other people's), put it on the glass, and hold the tip down with my thumb for a few seconds. Saves a lot of problems, but prevents me from blaming the reed for the ones that do happen.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2017-03-23 06:25
Thanks. The room humidity here runs in low to mid 20's.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-23 21:00
You can get wavy reeds to flatten out by soaking them, then fit them to the mouthpiece as you'd normally do.
Then close off the tenon end of the mouthpiece with your thumb and suck out the air from the mouthpiece tip to create a vacuum inside the mouthpiece. The reed will be sucked against the facing making a hissing sound and then will suddenly open with a pop after several seconds. That will straighten out the wavy reed tip.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-03-23 22:28
My vague 2-cent experience has been that reeds that dried while held face-down against a flat surface take longer wetting before play to get rid of the waviness. A theory would be that the flat surface doesn't conform to the reeds' normal, "relaxed", dry geometry, and somehow this affects how they later reabsorb water. So, I let reeds dry face-up in air.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-03-23 22:37
Philip Caron wrote:
> My vague 2-cent experience has been that reeds that dried while
> held face-down against a flat surface take longer wetting
> before play to get rid of the waviness. A theory would be that
> the flat surface doesn't conform to the reeds' normal,
> "relaxed", dry geometry, and somehow this affects how they
> later reabsorb water. So, I let reeds dry face-up in air.
Which way is "face-up?" Bark side facing up or flat side facing up?
Karl
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-03-24 00:27
I used to flatten them against the mouthpiece table, but stopped after the second time my thumb moved too far over and I put a crease in my only functional reed.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-03-24 01:10
As a reed master I agree it is caused by dryness. It can also be a sign that the tip is not evenly cut. For example, part of the tip may be thicker and another part thinner. Also the fibers may be harder and softer at different areas of the tip.
The easiest solution is to simply wet the reed for a few minutes and it should still play fine. Hope this helps.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2017-03-25 08:56)
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2017-03-24 01:14
I think I have a low humidity issue. I tried soaking in hot water 20 minutes then bending back tip on glass. Played much better. want to look into plactic bag or container with cigar humidity packs. ANy recommended less expensive brands and humidity ranges?
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-03-24 01:24
Karl - flat side facing up. This leaves the tip not touching anything solid. Either way I doubt there's a lot of significance to the idea, but well, 2-cents.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-03-24 02:40
Philip Caron wrote:
> Karl - flat side facing up. This leaves the tip not touching
> anything solid. Either way I doubt there's a lot of
> significance to the idea, but well, 2-cents.
What that does, in my experience, is to help prevent actual warping, which is of course very different from the wavy tip that straightens out once the reed is wet. So I've always dried cane reeds flat-side-up. It allows air to circulate around the entire reed so the reed surfaces dry out evenly. I think there's a great deal of significance to this idea.
But I'm not sure it avoids wavy tips.
Karl
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2017-03-24 04:05
How long a time do you allow reed to "dry" before storing in a case or holder?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-03-24 04:54
BGBG wrote:
> How long a time do you allow reed to "dry" before storing in a
> case or holder?
I use reed cases that hold the reeds on their edges, exposing them to air everywhere except perhaps the bottom edge as the reed sits in the case. I usually don't wait at all to put a moist reed in those holders.
If you're going to store your reeds in a flat glass style holder I would dry it over night if you can, or as long as possible if overnight isn't an option. Obviously, if you're away from home at a rehearsal or performance, that can be problematic.
Karl
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Author: SonicManEXE
Date: 2017-03-24 07:55
I find that, though wavy reeds on Bb clarinet are annoying and do inhibit the reed's ability, it is not the worst problem you could have. On larger clarinets and saxes, however, waviness poses a larger threat. On contrabass it makes the worst squawking sound you will ever hear (paired with a Rico reed, where the window of the mouthpiece is longer than the vamp, the sound is guaranteed to happen with a wavy reed). This can be solved, like how everyone else has already suggested, by smoothing out the tip on a flat surface like glass. I have a friend who uses the screen of his phone, which is glass, after all.
Jared
Ft. Lauderdale & Tampa, FL
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-03-25 09:00
Hot water WILL soften the reed strengths. What temperature is the water? 150 degrees will surely drop the reeds at least a strength maybe as much as 2, depending the the quality of the cane. In most cases it can kill a really good reed. Temperature is needed to determine your answer.
Please don't disagree with me on this, I've done a lot of studies. Thanks!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2017-03-25 09:07)
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2017-03-26 08:26
The amazing thing is, I never saw such a subject where so many people have their own ideas that work for them yet so many other people seem to have different or direct opposite ideas that work for them. It is hard to really decide just what to do.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2017-03-26 09:21
BGBG wrote:
> The amazing thing is, I never saw such a subject where so many
> people have their own ideas that work for them yet so many
> other people seem to have different or direct opposite ideas
> that work for them. It is hard to really decide just what to
> do.
Just play. Bottom line, every wavy reed will become flat again once it's been wet with saliva/water/whatever for long enough. Sometimes it takes a few seconds, sometimes a few minutes.
Don't worry about the wavy tip, just understand it won't play well until it's flattened back out (after it soaks up spit or water).
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-03-26 18:12
Or, if the frustration becomes overwhelming, there's always the wall! There's always a new reed with a flat tip waiting for you!
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2017-03-29 01:18
Bob B. : I was not measuring temperature. Usually put in cold tap water for a few minutes but read warm water might be better. No temperature suggested. Is there a certain temperature you would suggest if pre-soaking in water for a few minutes prior to playing?
If I just dip it or do not soak for at least a few minutes the reed plays badly in 15 minutes or so and re-wetting it improves it.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-03-29 17:18
I have some good articles on reeds on my website. But basically, a wavy tip is very common and in most cases should not be a problem. It's caused by the unevenness of the grain and because the tip is so thin it waves a bit when it gets slightly wet. Soaking it for a long time is not the solution. I soak only the vamp part of my reed for a few seconds. Then I press the tip against the mouthpiece facing for a few seconds to flatten it out. It does not have to be "soaked". You can press it against any flat surface and unless it's way out of balance it should flatten out in a few seconds. Put it on your MP and play it for a few seconds. If it doesn't respond well it needs to be balanced at or near the tip. Don't over think this. All wood warps or waves going from dry to wet when it as thin as the tip of a reed. Some a bit more than others.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-03-29 18:30
Ed Palanker wrote:
> All wood warps or waves going from dry to wet when it as thin
> as the tip of a reed. Some a bit more than others.
>
Ed, I agree completely with what you've written (I said the same thing near the top of the thread). But, reacting to this last sentence of your post, I've sometimes wondered why it is that *new* reeds rarely "crinkle" or become wavy-tipped when they are wet for the first time. I've never come up with a reasonable answer - not even a purely intuitive one.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-03-31 17:43
Karl, I could only surmise that even a new reed has a very thin tip and is not 100% perfectly even through out so the warping occures between the stong and weaker grain, even if it looks even. Remember, it's not the thickness but the density. Also, all wood used to be a living thing that required water to survive so the reed had moisture in it before it was cut and dried. My best guess.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-03-31 18:44
Ed Palanker wrote:
> Karl, I could only surmise that even a new reed has a very
> thin tip and is not 100% perfectly even through out so the
> warping occures between the stong and weaker grain, even if it
> looks even.
This looks like an explanation of why new reeds *do* wrinkle, so you may have misread my comment, Ed (or I've misunderstood yours). In my experience, brand new reeds, when you first wet them, *don't* crinkle (become wavy). Yes, they have the same uneven grain and thin tip that they will still have one or two more wettings down the line, yet for some reason they *don't* become wavy (again, in my experience) that first time out the box when you put them in your mouth for a few seconds and then onto the mouthpiece without needing to straighten the tip out.
I have to guess that something leeches out during that first playing, or something new gets absorbed from saliva that actually changes the density distribution. I wondered in my last post what changes.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-04-03 16:40
I believe the answer may be that perhaps the first time wood gets wet it has to dry and get wet again, perhaps a few times, before the "warping" or waving process begins. It's the wet to dry to wet over and over again that makes wood warp. Some sooner and some later. With a thin reed tip I guess it could take one wet-dry-wet or several.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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