 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-12-24 02:09
Attachment: Tuning_2016_12_23.png (48k)
Hi all,
I've started digging deeper in the intonation of my new Uebel Superior together with most of my mouthpieces.
I have found very similar tuning tendencies with my Ridenour Libertas in the past, so I'm thinking if there is something that I am still doing wrong and that I could try correcting behind the nose?
In general, the D, E, F area around the staff is quite low.
Also the high clarion E is also low.
See attached image for details.
I played slow tones from low E to high C without a tuner or anything and recorded myself and then analyzed the files with a piece of software I've been working on for this kinds of analysis.
Can it be that I need an even shorter barrel to be able to naturally compensate the low areas?
Or something completely different?
Has anyone had similar problematic areas when it comes to tuning?
Any suggested exercises or tests I could perform to check what can be causing this?
(It has struck me that it can just be me, and that without a reference point I am having trouble finding the correct pitch on certain notes.
Perhaps I should try doing the same exercise with a reference tone in my ear or something.. )
Regards
Peter
Post Edited (2016-12-24 02:14)
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-12-24 02:48
Looks like you can use some undercutting. A shorter barrel will affect the throat tones the most, the notes towards the bell the least.
Steve Ocone
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-12-24 10:57
Thanks. Wouldn't undercutting the E/F near the throat raise the high B/C too much?
Regards
Peter
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-12-24 17:04
Undercutting raises the chalumeau more then the clarion register. That being said, if the clarion is already sailing sharp undercutting may not be a solution, or at least not by itself.
Preferably I tune the clarinet with the player testing it out as I proceed. I let the customer decide what compromise they are willing to live with. Sometimes I send them to someone with more "expertise". In your case this may be the manufacturer (if they are willing and able).
Steve Ocone
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-12-25 20:16
Attachment: Tuning_2016_12_25.png (40k)
Thanks for your help.
I have now noticed that I was most likely using a very loose embochure, too much so perhaps.
I tried tightening up my embochure and got more reasonable results, see attached file.
I would still be interested in raising the E though..
Also lowest B is quite sharp, I've been using the 0X0 fingering for these recordings so maybe some other fingerings would improve this.
Regards
Peter
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-12-26 17:42
It looks like the A below that sharp B may also be also a bit sharp. The results aren't totally consistent. Before you do any changes you may want to choose a mouthpiece, get used to it and do another tuning chart.
For a instrument like the clarinet the first few tone holes are involved in the tuning of a particular note. If the A is sharp, bringing it down could also bring the pitch of the B down as well. The twelfth above will also be affected. Once the A is where you want it you can move to the B. This is can be done by placing material in the tone hole. There's a lot of specific information available on how to do this. Unlike undercutting the procedure is easily reversible.
Steve Ocone
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-12-26 19:29
Yes I am planning on trying to record scales once per day to get some sort of more statistical data.
And maybe try to play different scales or different musical exerpts for tuning purposes to see how tones do in different contexts perhaps?
I am used to the viotto which I've been using the longest of any mouthpiece, I just wanted to throw in some of my old french mouthpieces to check if they performed significantly better.
From these findings I do not feel as I would do much better with any of the other mouthpieces so I'll go on playing my favorite Viotto.
I am also working on getting hold of a shorter barrel, since some tones are on the edge with the Viotto especially when the instrument is not warmed up.
Thanks for the tip about adding material. I already added some to the 3rd open hole, to lower the D below the staff which was causing me some issues with a piece I'm currently working on.
I may try to experiment with the material adding on more places but for now I agree with you that I should make totally sure that these graphs are representative of my playing.
Regards
Peter
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-12-26 22:58
Ryan with Pereira 3D Clarinet Innovations makes inexpensive bells to help figure out the tuning issues. Measure the length and ask him to make you something smaller. Maybe 2 mm's. You can always pull out a shade.
The present mouthpiece bores in general also are too big and or too long. The easiest solution is a shorter bell. The M series Vandorens are the worst.
We all like different horns. I won't comment on this horn, but I've played it. Before making a bell change maybe find a live mouthpiece, not something like a Zinner or an M series Vandoren but a mouthpiece that rings and will fill a concert hall. If you are unsure of what to listen to there is always Marcellus. Any Cleveland Orchestra recording will work just fine with Szell.
Then see if your horn is out of tune, if so find a smaller bell. A mouthpiece that is standing out might be the Vandoren BD5, but I haven't tried it, I've only heard it played by a few really fine players. I have to actually order one and see how it sounds, the ease of playing, the intonation, all of that.
In many of my posts players may see me pushing for yesterdays sound. I believe the new clarinet sound is too dark and the flutes and oboe sounds are getting brighter. In the altissimo registers the clarinets are going flat and the other woodwinds are going sharp, the clarinets are built on 10th the other woodwinds are not. The clarinet are dead in the upper registers. This is nothing new, but it's getting worse.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-12-27 06:01)
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