 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-09-04 03:14
So I've been playing a while now, and I was working on my altissimo notes for a while when I notices there is motion near my throat when I play from about a clarion high C, onto all the altissimo notes I can play. (up to a) I think it is the back of my tongue moving, but I'm not sure. Is there anyway I can stop this? I think it hurts my tone and the tonguing of the notes.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-09-04 03:29
What happens when you begin on an altissimo note, say a D6 or Eb6 to stay with stable ones. Does your throat do the same thing? Or is the throat change something that happens only as you move over the break from clarion to altissimo?
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-09-04 04:10
And, to clarify, is this a change of position somewhere "back there" for high notes, or is a continuing motion, like a quiver, *while*you sustain a note above C6?
Obviously, it's always hard to try to diagnose this problems with execution when we can't hear the result. Standard disclaimer - you'd almost certainly get a more helpful response from an in-person teacher or experienced player.
Karl
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Author: Richie
Date: 2016-09-04 16:35
It's a constant thing, that only changes back when I change the note. I would talk to my lesson teacher about this, but he's going to be out of town for this week.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-09-04 17:13
Without really knowing what's going on, the best anyone here can do is stab at possibilities. You might try an experiment. Start with a low C and hold it for a couple of seconds. Then, without stopping the sound, press the register key to produce G5. Notice if anything has changed in your throat (or anywhere else). If not, then do the same thing, but after a couple of seconds of G, back your left hand onto the throat G# key to open it, again without stopping the sound. The fingering, if you aren't familiar with it, produces E6 (the next playable harmonic in the series that starts on C4). With any luck, you won't have changed anything to make the leap. You might even have a friend stand there and press the G# key for you so you won't know when it will be.
If all works well and you haven't clinched up (or whatever you're doing) when E6 pops out, you'll have a starting point from which to slowly move downward and later upward from E. If even a "blind" jump up to E6 triggers the problem, I can't imagine what it could be without hearing it. The most likely explanation might be that a fear (probably too strong a word) of altissimo response causes you to reflexively do *something* to make the notes come out. That *something* is usually unnecessary and counterproductive. But you'd need an in-person observer to really drill into it unless someone here has actually had the same experience.
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-09-04 22:44
When I started playing again I couldn't tongue above clarion high C. When I was tonguing I was moving the back of my tongue/palate/throat (mostly my palate), so it would just squeak. I was doing the same thing on the lower notes, but they are more stable, so it wasn't as noticeable. After a while I got my tonguing figured out and could hold everything else still. Focus on holding your palate and throat still while tonguing the lower notes, then try the third register.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-09-05 02:23
If Paul Aviles was joining this conversation, I suspect he'd point out that the throat / palate don't move because they don't have muscles to move them. He has indeed written to that effect here in the past.
Having now spoken for him (my apologies, Paul, if you read this), I'll venture that I've never quite agreed with him on that, though I don't have any anatomical references to support either agreement or disagreement.
I think Paul's right in that most of what we do in voicing involves the positioning of the tongue. However, the act of swallowing feels like it does something with muscles in that area besides just the tongue.
In addition, the positioning of the jaw involves several little sets of muscles. It can be protruded straight out below the upper jaw (like an underbite) or drawn straight back in (like an overbite). Those kind of actions also seem to affect the throat cavity.
People can operate all the muscles in this area unconsciously. They're actually not easy to notice when you're thinking of something else (like expression or fingers etc.)
My guess as to the original question is that the tongue, lower down, is the culprit - possibly not just shutting off the air stream, but changing it enough that vibration and tone production is affected. My advice would be a) check with the teacher, and b) try relaxing all those muscles while playing and see if the problem goes away, even if it produces a horrifically terrible sound. I suspect it will do both. Then, keep varying things until you become aware of what muscles are doing what. Then, practice for control.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-09-05 03:17
Philip Caron wrote:
> If Paul Aviles was joining this conversation, I suspect he'd
> point out that the throat / palate don't move because they
> don't have muscles to move them. He has indeed written to that
> effect here in the past.
>
I'm not sure exactly what Paul says specifically about the soft palate. But I think simple observation in a mirror shows that it can move under voluntary control. Which is why the doctor asks you to say "ahhh" to look at your pharyngeal area. You can see the uvula rise markedly if you watch in a mirror while you do it (use a flashlight to see better).
I'd be surprised if raising the palate really is involved in Richie's problem. Muscles can only contract, and raising the uvula and soft palate is the result of contraction from above. It's hard to see where the muscles would be to force the area downward. The tongue *can* close off the area by rising too far (there *are* opposing flexors and extensors above and below the tongue). This is all based on my conjecture - I haven't studied oral/pharyngeal anatomy, either.
> and see if the problem goes away, even if it produces a
> horrifically terrible sound. I suspect it will do both. Then,
> keep varying things until you become aware of what muscles are
> doing what. Then, practice for control.
Or, ironically, if the problem turns out to be an unconscious, counterproductive way to produce the sound, practice staying out of the way.
Karl
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