The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mamanvatsa
Date: 2016-05-05 22:11
http://www.aswltd.com/chresto90jun.htm
From The Director's Desk
Editorial Views and Opinions
The Influence of Wood on Tone
A Perennial Question Reexamined
Perhaps the most frequent questions that we are asked by customers have to do with the influence of one’s choice of wood on the tone of a recorder or other historical woodwind instrument. There seems to be a great deal of misinformation on this particular issue in current circulation, and it is little wonder that so many players are concerned and confused about this topic and its relative importance in the overall scheme of things. Since this issue of Chrestologia features a special sale on Kьng recorders and each model is available in a choice of up to twelve different woods, it would seem to be an excellent time to address ourselves to this topic, if only to forestall dozens of phone calls and messages asking the same questions! Our on-line Antique Sound Workshop catalogue does in fact contain an information bulletin on recorders which devotes a few extremely concise paragraphs to this perennial question, but it would seem appropriate to expand upon that information and examine this controversial subject in some detail.
Back in the 1960’s, several scholarly monographs were published which seemed to conclude, at least to their authors’ satisfaction, that choice of material, be it wood, metal, glass, ivory, plastic, or any other substance has no influence whatsoever on the tone of any musical wind instrument. Any musician, of course, would strongly disagree with those conclusions, as empirical evidence and personal experience have for centuries convinced players and instrument makers otherwise. Since recorders are largely handmade and tonal differences can also be attributed to minute discrepancies in voicing, it might be well first to look at some modern wind instruments, which presumably might show less sample-to-sample variation.
A modern Bцhm system transverse flute made of wood certainly sounds quite different than an identical instrument made of metal and feels very different to the person playing the instrument as well. The differences between a wooden and a metal instrument are enormous and evident to virtually every person within earshot; the wooden flute is warm, mellow, and covered in tone whereas the metal instrument is bright, clear, and edgy. Furthermore, a metal flute made of sterling silver sounds and feels demonstrably different than one made of gold or platinum or nickel silver. A gold flute is darker; warmer, and more covered-sounding, whereas a silver flute is lighter and brighter. Interchanging headjoints of different materials on the same flute body can also make a substantial difference in tone, projection, and response; and many flutists spend a lifetime experimenting with different instruments and headjoints in an effort to achieve optimum performance.
In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, flutes, oboes, and clarinets were usually made of boxwood and much less frequently of rosewood. As orchestras became larger and louder, woodwind makers gradually changed over to grenadilla, which provides a louder tone and greater projection. Many flute makers as late as the early twentieth century were still using grenadilla or ebony but most eventually changed to all-metal construction. Some modern oboe makers still offer rosewood as an alternative to grenadilla, although the great majority of players have a clear preference for the latter. Clarinets seem to be available at the present time only in grenadilla wood, with orchestral projection being the primary concern for makers and players. [Editor's note: rosewood clarinets have just recently experienced a modest renaissance among a few players.
Modern brasswind instruments also show substantial tonal differences due to materials: trumpets, horns, and trombones made of normal or yellow brass are brighter and lighter in tone with more overtone development, whereas instruments of gold brass, an alloy which typically has just slightly more copper in its composition than yellow brass, are darker and heavier in tone, have greater resistance and are more tiring to play, but afford more projection. Nickel silver or German silver, another alloy which in spite of its name has no silver content at all, is heavier still and even more resistant. It is not uncommon among brass instrument makers to make the body of an instrument from yellow brass and the bell branch of gold brass or nickel silver (in the latter case the entire instrument is usually silverplated) to increase resistance and projection.
Organ pipes are an excellent laboratory in which to study wind instrument acoustics, as they are virtually player-independent and have only to produce a single note from each pipe, therefore eliminating the complications caused in woodwind and brasswind instruments by toneholes, keys, bends, valves, and the like. One can build and voice three identical ranks of wooden flue pipes, one of mahogany, one of pine, and one of oak, and readily determine that the lightest and least dense mahogany rank has the weakest and most diffuse tone, the pine pipes a somewhat stronger tone, and the oak pipes the strongest and most compact tone.
Why, then, did so much research a quarter century ago seem to indicate that material plays no part in the tonal spectrum of an instrument? Scientists, using the relatively primitive computers of that time, performed extensive real time spectral analysis of the tones produced by a wide variety of musical instruments and plotted and compared the relative strength of the various overtones. The tacit but incorrect assumption was that the tone of musical instrument was determined solely by its overtone structure (i.e., the presence and relative strength of the various partials) and that what they measured was what one heard. We are now beginning to understand that what they measured was not incorrect but simply incomplete. The comparison of the overtone structure of musical instruments or electronically generated tones can be instructive, but it is only part of the puzzle. When considered in isolation from other more elusive tonal parameters, the investigation of overtone structure can and in fact did lead to misleading information and incorrect theses.
In the interim the science of psychoacoustics, still in its infancy but then largely unknown or ignored, has made some progress toward determining exactly what creates the identification and subjective evaluation of musical instrument tone. In particular, we have learned that attack transients, relatively weak overtones and noise partials (inharmonics) which are present at the very beginning of a musical tone but attenuate quickly, provide important but still incompletely understood psychological cues to the human ear and brain. Experiment has shown that, if a musical instrument tone is recorded and the beginning of the tone is snipped off, the listener becomes disoriented and easily confuses one instrument with another.
Again, pipe organs provide a useful case in point. Classic mechanical action organs, in which the strength and duration of attack transients (usually referred to as “chiff” in organ parlance) are directly controlled by the player's touch, are clearly much more interesting, articulate, and inherently musical than electrical action organs, in which the key is merely a switch turning a pipe on or off and the attack transients are beyond the control of the performer. In the late nineteenth century, when electric action organs came into being, builders experimented with a wide variety of new pipe designs, voicing techniques, and higher wind pressures in a largely futile attempt to compensate for the lack of articulation and musical interest inherent in electrical action instruments. The American theater organ was the ultimate result of this blind alley of organ development, attempting with its enormous variety of stops and sheer volume to make up for its dullness of speech.
It may be seen, then, that the choice of wood does indeed have a definite and predictable influence on tone, although we are only now beginning to understand how to measure and interpret those differences. To be sure, the overall bore, windway design, and the voicing of the individual instrument are far more important factors in the tonal structure of an instrument; it is only when all other parameters are constant that the difference in material comes into any degree of importance. My guess is that, both with recorders and organ pipes, the material is about 10% of the total tonal determinant, the scale and bore another 10%, and the remaining 80% is due to voicing. Our readers may recall from their school days the essence of the scientific method: one should change only one variable at a time. To compare two different makes or models of instrument and two different woods at the same time is folly. Even comparing two instruments of identical construction but differing woods can be misleading, since the tonal differences could well be a product of sample-to-sample variation as well as the result of the woods in question. It is only when one tries out ten or a dozen samples of each model and wood and eliminates the individual sample differences that one can begin to perceive the “distilled essence" of the tone of each It is only then possible to speak of pearwood or palisander as having particular indigenous tonal properties which are independent of an instrument’s tonal design and directly attributable to the wood itself.
The influence of the wood, as we have stated on previous occasions, is due not to the hardness or density of the wood per se, as is generally believed, but rather to the fiber structure and porosity, which determine the relative roughness or smoothness of the bore. In general, softer, less dense woods yield a rougher bore surface, which produces a warmer, more covered and diffuse tone. What actually happens is that the larger microscopic pits in the bore trap the higher overtones or frequencies, which have shorter wavelengths, causing them to reflect back upon themselves and producing some out-of-phase cancellation or attenuation. Harder and denser woods, on the other hand, permit a smoother, more highly polished bore surface and produce a brighter, clearer, and more centered tone quality with greater projection. The reflectivity of the higher frequencies, together with less cancellation and more reinforcement of the upper overtones, produces a more lively, assertive tone quality.
A good rule of thumb as regards the cost and tonal quality of the various woods used in woodwind instrument making is that the softer domestic European woods, being plentiful and near at hand, are less expensive, the imported tropical or exotic woods from South America and Africa are harder and more expensive, and the cost of the wood therefore usually increases with hardness. There are, however, two exceptions to this rule: olivewood and European boxwood are relatively soft woods but, because of their slow growth and rarity, are more expensive than some harder woods.
The softest and warmest-sounding woods are the domestic European fruitwoods: pearwood, plumwood, cherrywood and olivewood. Pearwood is the most gentle-toned and covered-sounding of these four, whereas the other three have a slight trace of brightness, particularly evident after break-in, around a softer core tone. Recorders and other woodwind instruments made from these fruitwoods are usually the best for ensemble performance, since they are relatively self-effacing and blend well with other instruments. Instruments made of maple are somewhat fuller and louder, slightly windy and less re?ned than any of the fruitwocds. Since maple is essentially white and has little grain, many makers stain their maple instruments a medium or dark brown. Staining of pearwood instruments is also occasionally found, although most customers seem to prefer natural unstained instruments. Fruitwood instruments, incidentally, seem to become brighter with use over a period of years, whereas maple instruments, after the initial break-in period, apparently do not.
Most recorder makers have a line of student instruments made from either maple or pearwood as their least expensive offerings. Instruments made from maple or any of the fruitwoods are usually impregnated with paraffin under pressure, in order to stabilize their dimensions and render them impervious to moisture and less susceptible to changes in ambient humidity. Student instruments made of these woods are not only relatively inexpensive but also require very little care, since they do not have to be either oiled or humidified. These softer woods, however, can be somewhat prone to fungus and mildew if they are put away wet in a closed box. This is not a widespread problem throughout most of the United States and Canada, but it is a real concern in our Gulf Coast states and in much of Europe, where the relative humidity levels are consistently higher. Since woodrot and related disorders are extremely difficult to arrest once established, prevention is the best policy. Instruments made of these woods should be allowed to dry out thoroughly before being placed in a closed container.
Boxwood is a popular term for a variety of woods from many different countries which have very little in common except for their pale yellow color. The boxwood used by 18th century makers was either European or the closely-related Turkish boxwood, prized for its relative hardness, bright tonal quality, and natural resistance to water. This wood is only occasionally used for instrument making today: it is usually found as a hedge, takes many years to grow to tree size and is rarely found in pieces large and straight enough from which to fashion a musical instrument. In addition to its rarity and high cost, it often has many small knot holes which are not apparent to the instrument maker until after he/she has had the wood for several years in storage and begins to turn the instrument. Many pieces of boxwood are therefore found unsuitable during the manufacturing pieces and must be thrown away. Many others must be doctored up by filling the knotholes with a mixture of epoxy and wood dust to make them more esthetically attractive and saleable. A further unattractive aspect of European and Turkish boxwood is that it tends to warp very readily as it ages; this is why so many boxwood instruments in museum collections are bent like boomerangs. Given the high fatality rate as well as the cost and rarity of the wood, it is little wonder that recorders and other woodwind instruments made from true European or Turkish boxwood command a very high price indeed.
Some American makers have used so-called Thailand boxwood or other tropical woods of yellowish color as substitutes for true boxwood, with only moderately successful results. Most instruments from European makers labeled as boxwood are in fact made from a South American (usually Venezuelan) wood known variously as Maracaibo or Zapatero, which is plentiful and inexpensive, easy to work, highly stable, but somewhat blander in tonal properties than European boxwood. It is also considerably less hard and dense and less water-resistant as well. Some makers choose to paraffinize this wood and others don’t. South American boxwood is intermediate in cost and tonal quality between the domestic fruitwoods on one hand and the exotic tropical rosewoods on the other.
A fairly reliable guide to the true origin of a boxwood instrument may be ascertained from its price: if a boxwood instrument is found among a maker's medium-priced instruments, such as those made of bubinga, you be reasonably certain that it is Venezuelan boxwood; if a boxwood instrument is among the most expensive models, surpassing even grenadilla and price, you may be certain that it is made of genuine European or Turkish boxwood and is the real McCoy. Instruments of South American boxwood are tonally neutral and transparent and reflect more the voicing and design of the instrument than any specific tonal property attributable to the wood itself. When customers wish to compare different makes and models of instruments, we advise them to try one of each model in Venezuelan boxwood, since the true character of the design, relatively uninfluenced by the wood, will be easier to perceive in that context. Euro-boxwood, on the other hand, produces instruments which are brilliant, edgy, and ostensibly solo instruments of considerable character and strength. The few makers that offer instruments made of this wood, such as Fehr and Huber, charge a princely sum for them; and the availability of such instruments is usually extremely limited.
Other medium-priced tropical hardwoods such as bubinga, padouk, hornwood, and zebrawood are somewhat harder and denser than boxwood, maple, or any of the above-discussed fruitwoods. They are more striking in color and grain and offer greater volume, projection, presence, and character than any of the softer woods. Bubinga, often called. African rosewood, is reddish-brown and a good middle-of-the-road choice for both solo and ensemble playing, being full and well-focused and neither too bright nor too dark. It is, however, somewhat allergenic and not recommended for players with a tendency toward skin allergies. Padouk, from the Andaman Islands in the Indian Ocean, is an intense dark red or reddish-purple in color, is much lighter in weight than the other hardwoods (a property which is especially welcome in tenor and larger sizes), and has a clear, transparent tone with moderate brightness. Zebrawood is striking and handsome in appearance, with large dark-brown to brown-black stripes on a yellow-brown background. It is more grainy and fibrous than the other woods in this medium price category and is rather burly and somewhat similar to maple in tone quality, although infinitely more interesting in appearance. Hornwood (sometimes called European ironwood) is an extremely hard wood of an interesting but subtle grayish cream color; it produces a dark, strong, neutral tone which is well-centered with good projection.
The hardest woods commonly used in recorder making are from the South American Dalbergia family of rosewoods which includes such Brazilian varieties as palisander, kingwood or violetwood, and tulipwood (in order of increasing hardness and brilliance) and their close cousin grenadilla wood from Africa, often called African blackwood. Palisander varies widely in color and density from a softer, chocolate brown variety to a very hard, light yellow-brown wood, all with highly distinctive brown stripes. Kingwood and violetwood are essentially the same wood, a harder and brighter-sounding variety of palisander with smaller and more varied grain markings and a slight lavender cast which is most attractive. Tulipwood, sometimes called Bahia Rosewood, is the hardest and rarest of the Dalbergia genus, having light to dark red stripes on a yellow or grayish-yellow background, and is easily the most dramatic of all woods in appearance and the most brilliant and vibrant in tone. All of the Brazilian rosewoods have pronounced personalities and make excellent solo instruments, but they are as a result less well suited to consort use.
Grenadilla wood, extremely dark brown to black in appearance and quite heavy in weight, is stronger in tone than the rosewoods but not as edgy or brilliant. It is usually the wood of choice for professional players who must perform in large halls or with modern instruments such as flute, oboe, violin, or piano. It is extremely dense and solid, but relatively inelastic; it can easily crack if dropped or exposed to low temperature or humidity conditions. Ebony, a somewhat softer and coarser wood from Africa or India, is not as satisfactory tonally but is occasionally found as a cheaper grenadilla substitute. It does not cut as smoothly as grenadilla and, in poorer grades, chips easily when bored or turned. The generic term blackwood is used to designate either grenadilla or ebony. The old Arnold Dolmetsch firm referred to its grenadilla recorders as blackwood; some other modern makers label their ebony instruments as blackwood, in an apparent attempt to dupe the customer into thinking he/she is buying a grenadilla wood instrument. In an attempt to foster truth in advertising, our price lists cite the actual wood used, which in some cases differs from the nomenclature used by the maker.
The hardest, heaviest, and most penetrating of woodwind instruments have traditionally been made from ivory, which because of its minute grain structure may be polished to a very high degree. Since the importation of ivory and ivory products has been virtually banned by the U.S. government for more than a decade, a number of synthetic ivory substitutes have been introduced in recent years, most of which are somewhat lighter in weight and less fine-grained than real ivory. Interestingly enough, plastic recorders, in spite of their lighter weight, have tonal properties very similar to ivory. While ivory recorders have a great cachet among collectors and plastic instruments none whatsoever, they both produce a hard-edged, glassy tone that is not terribly subtle or attractive for any extended period of time. They also are extremely prone to clogging, even after a careful break-in period. Ivory recorders make great display pieces, but they are not the most musical of instruments. The ban on ivory instruments seems to have been a blessing to both people and elephants.
In summary, we can conclude that wood choice does have a definite, predictable, and audible influence on the tone of a recorder or other woodwind instrument. The overall design and voicing of the instrument, however, have a much greater influence on the sound than the wood per se. When comparing different makes and models of instruments, it is advisable to try a variety of instruments in one common wood first, in order to determine which design is best suited to your tastes, needs, and budget. Once a particular model has been selected, it is then appropriate to try the various wood choices in which that model is available, in order to refine the tonal properties more closely.
Finally, it is possible to choose a wood which either emphasizes or minimizes the basic tonal design of the instrument; a Kьng recorder in pearwood (a mellow design in a mellow wood) or a Coolsma recorder in palisander (a reedy design in a reedy wood) would be two very different examples of reinforcement of tonal design by wood choice. Alternately, it is possible to mitigate the tonal design by choosing a wood which contradicts the basic nature of the recorder; this often results in the most interesting and complex-sounding instruments: a Kьng recorder in grenadilla or tulipwood is a gentle, warm-toned instrument with enhanced projection and character; whereas a pearwood Roessler Meister or Oberlender recorder would dampen and mellow the essentially bright and edgy nature of these designs. Given the wide variety of woods and models available, it is a delightful challenge for us at ASW to help each and every customer find just the one right instrument for his or her personal taste, needs, and budget – that's why we have over six hundred different models of recorders in stock!
Post Edited (2016-05-05 22:12)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-05 22:55
Thank you for that very thoughtful post.
I agree that the human ear can hear far more than many give it credit. Just speaking purely of frequency response sensitivity, the human ear is capable of detecting pressure variations of less than one billionth of an atmospheric pressure.
That's a fact.
Those who think machines can measure all that we can hear need to listen more and crunch numbers a little less.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-05-06 00:32
You guys are welcome to duke it out with Tom Ridenour on the subject of body material effects on clarinet tone. We've been over that topic a million times here. It's like religion, you can neither prove what you believe nor disprove what someone else believes.
Good luck.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-06 01:00
I believe you'd be hard pressed to find a principal player in a major symphony orchestra playing a Ridenour Bb or A.............perhaps one of his C clarinets every once in a while though.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: bassclarinet101 ★2017
Date: 2016-05-06 01:04
When it comes to tone, I believe it is possible to objectively prove the effects material has on the output. What I believe is truly being measured is reflectivity of the material. A material like grenadilla would end up as diffuse porous, while something like a hard plastic is a more reflective material, and the relative reflectivity is going to have an effect on the outcome. Whether the outcome is negligible or appreciable is a different discussion.
I suspect the experiment would function something like this:
Question: Does material have an effect on the tone produced by a clarinet?
Hypothesis: A difference in material (does/does not) have an effect on the tone of a clarinet.
Materials:
10 identical closed hole tubes, cut in each of different tested materials (grenadilla wood, rosewood, cocobolo wood, vulcanized rubber, plastic, delrin, etc.) with one hole in the tube
1 glass mouthpiece (chosen for consistency of results)
1 ligature
1 plastic reed (chosen for consistency of results)
1 pressurized air pump
2 gauges for reading wind pressure (one at the end of the tube, one at the open hole)
Experimental Procedure:
1. The reed and ligature will be affixed to the mouthpiece, which is then sealed off by the hose of the air pressure pump at the base of the table. This ensures the vibration of the reed, and affixing the complete mouthpiece setup to the air pressure pump enables the setup to remain consistent between trials.
2. A closed hole tube is attached to the mouthpiece setup, with the hole at the zero degree point of the mouthpiece.
3. One gauge for wind pressure is placed .5" above the tone hole.
4. One gauge for wind pressure is placed .5" away from the end of the tube.
5. The pressurized pump is turned on.
6. Wind pressure is measured at both holes every 20 seconds for three minutes and charted.
7. The tube is removed and an uncharted tube is attached to the mouthpiece setup, with the hole at the zero degree point of the mouthpiece.
8. Repeat steps 3-7 until all tubes have been charted.
Then the data is just qualified and turned into information. If possible, it would be even more information to actually chart the wind within the tube, applying more accurate information into how the material affects each outcome. Just having the wind pressure tells about how much energy is lost in efficiency of each, and provides little. Measuring more enables a more detailed output in terms of JUST clarinet tone. This sort of thing fails in measuring things like the material's other properties, utilities, its tendency to produce toxic dust, longevity, etc.
NOTE: I am not a scientist; this can be done better by a professional.
-Daniel
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-06 01:30
Reflectivity is typically used to characterize optical properties.
While for woodwinds (aerophones) dimensions of the bore are of primary importance, material matters.
It matters in terms of surface roughness, which is a factor for the resistance and, most importantly, for different types of wood primarily due to wood response to humidity changes, which greatly affect dimensions.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2016-05-06 01:33
Rosewood, cocobolo and grenadilla give an audible difference to the sound, so wood matters. A blindfolded listener would hear a difference.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2016-05-06 02:47
Grain of salt aside (this is editorial is from a seller of predominantly wooden recorders and flutes afterall), I do concur with this statement:
'The influence of the wood, as we have stated on previous occasions, is due not to the hardness or density of the wood per se, as is generally believed, but rather to the fiber structure and porosity, which determine the relative roughness or smoothness of the bore. In general, softer, less dense woods yield a rougher bore surface, which produces a warmer, more covered and diffuse tone.'
I have experienced this with recorders and flutes because those instruments are commonly made in many types of wood - maple, fruitwoods, rosewood/grenadilla, cocuswood, etc. Not to mention various metals and plastics. The difference is certainly there in both tone and playing resistance between some of these materials (eg. maple vs grenadilla). It's all to do with bore finish and grain porosity, I believe.
However, in regards to clarinets I've not yet played an entire instrument made in a material besides grenadilla or resin/plastic.
Vaughan
Post Edited (2016-05-06 02:49)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-06 03:16
HUGE effect - the material matters big, big, big time.
However, there are materials that do give a very good sound, but they feel different to play.
Plastic is different, hard rubber is different, composite different........ with the same dimensions exactly.
If a player is not advanced enough to tell the difference, it's on the player.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-06 03:31
DavidBlumberg wrote:
>
> Plastic is different, hard rubber is different, composite
> different........ with the same dimensions exactly.
>
How do you know that dimensions are exactly the same and, importantly, thermal expansion of materials and their response to humidity are the same (to assure the constancy of dimensions) throughout the playing conditions?!
Post Edited (2016-05-06 03:31)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-06 03:44
As closely as possible.
There are slight machining differences, but how the other material instrument plays is much more of a difference.
There are manufacturers who's instrument dimensions are very, very similar among instrument to instrument.
Same for barrels
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-05-06 04:15
I have several examples of clarinets which are available in both hard rubber and wood. These are mostly B & H instruments, being:
Imperial 926. 2 wood, 2 hard rubber.
Emperor. 1 wood, 1 hard rubber.
in all cases the hard rubber instruments play and sound better than the wood instruments when played with the same mouthpiece/reed/ligature.
Tony F.
Post Edited (2016-05-06 16:46)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-06 05:41
Even assuming no machining differences - most clarinets are made of woods. There are hardly identical piece of woods in grain, porosity and hence roughness and swelling at different humidity. Typical wood swells more than 10% from 20% RH to 80% RH. Surely, grenadilla, being one of the densest, changes less, but those are huge changes, where for the typical bore of 14.6-14.65 mm, even 0.02-0.03 mm matters!
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Author: Burt
Date: 2016-05-06 06:23
The stiffness (Young's modulus) of the material is important, since a stiff material will not absorb much of the sound transmitted down the length of the bore (air). So PVC, lead, or balsa wood would be very poor choices for a clarinet. Hard rubber, many metal alloys, and hard wood are better choices. The material must also be capable of being machined accurately and with a smooth bore. It should be possible to build an excellent metal clarinet.
Any material whose stiffness changes significantly with moisture or temperature is not a good candidate because a clarinet made of such a material would change tone quality while it is being played.
Burt Marks
Ridenour Lyrique Libertas (hard rubber!)
Vandoren M30 (hard rubber)
Legere Signature 3.75 (plastic)
but my clarinet case has wood in it.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-06 07:08
And they can Tony!!!
A great hard rubber Clarinet will most probably sound better than a good wooden Clarinet. There are some who prefer the sound of the hard rubber to even a very good wooden Clarinet.
And hard rubber is way easier to deal with acoustically (material is so much more machinable to specs)
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-06 13:18
When the air column makes the sound (aerophones), the material of the container does not matter much (stiffness, weight, shine...) - a good practical example is organ pipes, made of lead, wood, anything. Lead (and its different alloys) was commonly used for just plain being cheaper.
Clarinet is far from an ideal instrument )
What make materials matter quite a bit acoustically (at least for a mouthpiece and a barrel) are the vibrations of the reed transmitting to the material.
Hard rubber may be a good material acoustically.
Yet, it is prone to chemical degradation, especially when exposed to light, looses its (artificial) black colour, smells, silver keys can't be used - so hardly an ideal choice. Not to mention that good old rubbers routinely used lead compounds as fillers/stabilizers.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-05-06 14:11
And furthermore I suspect that the quality of the hard rubber used in todays clarinets is not all that it is cracked up to be.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-05-06 15:55
Surprised that the "vintage" formulation for hard rubber, sans the black dye, hasn't been used for a new clarinet design. This custom material would be as expensive as wood and it's ivory color with rose gold keys would look cool!
I think Tom Ridenour thinks that even the dye used to blacken the hard rubber might have a negative effect on it's tone ...
Seems to be density of the material is the most important factor ... and if you can get stability and machine-ability as well, that is icing on the cake.
Less dense materials like hard rubber, some plastics and softer hardwoods seem to have a warmer sound with less overtones ... very hard materials like metal and Greenline have more focus and brightness, IMHO.
My usual 3-cents ...
Tom
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-05-06 18:34
Another warning about hard rubber clarinets: Do not choose hard rubber for a clarinet to play outdoors. In addition to the chemical deterioration that ClaV describes, hard rubber clarinets can bend out of shape in hot weather, especially when exposed to direct sunlight. Once bent, they'll never play in tune again. Freezing weather (at a winter football game, for instance) can make hard rubber brittle enough to crack. I'm an amateur clarinet player but a pro at scrounging flea markets, yard sales, junktique markets and other disreputable venues since the early 1970s. Over the years, I've seen (and not bought) dozens of ruined rubber clarinets -- far more ruined ones than repairable ones.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-05-06 18:37
When referring to differences in sound, especially one material sounding better than another, who is evaluating? It would be better if it were listeners, not the player, and better yet if the listeners were not informed about the material(s) being used.
This point is related to but separate from how the different materials respond and play as detected by the player.
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Author: bassclarinet101 ★2017
Date: 2016-05-06 19:03
I believe one material sounding better than another is an entirely subjective experience, and one that is guided by the preferences of the times. What is worth measuring is how material affects sound, and then players can use something objective to guide their subjective preferences.
-Daniel
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-06 19:27
I'm sure there are varying levels of the quality of hard rubber clarinets (CSO's), but the Ridenour Clarinets would not do that.
They would tarnish Silver, but not Gold.
Backun Alpha is a good example of a synthetic Clarinet with phenomenal tuning.
But does it sound the same as a higher Model made of Wood?
Nope, great though.
And that's why there's wooden models.
Could you imagine a plastic clarinet with the extra keywork?
Would be cool though!
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-06 19:32
And of course "better" is entirely objective.
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2016-05-07 00:45
Material does matter. It's why I prefer the warm sound of hard rubber
Fernando
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-07 01:12
It seems like the synthetic line has largely been ignored so far by the masses.
Clarinet Manufacturers don't seem to be worried that much about running out of Grenadilla.
Are the Conservation measures doing that much???
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-07 01:24
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> It seems like the synthetic line has largely been ignored so
> far by the masses.
...
>
> Backun Alpha is a good example of a synthetic Clarinet with phenomenal
> tuning.
> But does it sound the same as a higher Model made of Wood?
> Nope, great though.
> And that's why there's wooden models.
Is Backun Alpha made with the same bore and tone-holes as MoBa or Backun Professional clarinets? Of course not!
Yet, the fact, that Buffet Greenline (made of some Grenadilla powder and a binder) plays the same as grenadilla clarinet is a most definite proof that plastic clarinets can be made as good as wooden!
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-07 01:30
More to the hard rubber, the gold plating costs quite a bit more, the last time I looked. Pure gold is also much softer, while alloying gold in turn makes it more susceptible to tarnishing again.
I've seen Tom Ridenour once advertising hard rubber as a natural material. It is far from true. While the latex (rubber) may be natural, adding hefty amount of sulfur and other chemicals precludes any "naturalness".
I am not aware that any specific hard rubber can be much better in stability, since the laws of oxidation of sulfur and degradation of heavily cross-linked materials are pretty much universal.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-07 02:28
ClaV - uh no........
Greenline does NOT play the same at the R-13.
Some like them just fine, but they are not the same at all.
If you can't tell that, it's on you.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-05-07 03:13
Tom Ridenour is a great salesman. He can sell snow to an Eskimo.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-07 05:32
Yes, I can hear more difference from a switch from a cane reed to Legere than from Greenline to R13 (if there are any standard R13).
So it is on me, I concur.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-07 06:46
There also is a feeling difference. If 3 wooden and 3 Greenline Clarinets were played mixed up in a row, doubt I could hear the difference on all of them. But if I played them all, bet I could.
"Play differently" I wrote.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-05-07 16:54
Played a Backun Alpha (again) last weekend for a while ... lightweight, tuning VG, well made. The keys didn't fit my wonky, damaged right hand, especially the over sized spatulas on the trill keys got in the way ... Unfortunately, IMHO, the sound was lightweight too, not really so much bright but shallow and kinda "plastic" sounding. Some of my impression might be the way the lighter material vibrates under fingers ...
Also played a used Yamaha 400AD (similar to YCL-450) and it was better in every way ... had some depth, good response and pretty good intonation and fits my hands.
Yamaha rocks!
My friend's YCL-650 I got to spend some time with again as well ... like it more than the first time, it's been broken in and adjusted ... free blowing, centered, VG response ... I might have to get one, just to have and enjoy. Good sound for concert band.
Interesting about hard rubber being quirky for outdoor use ... that's one reason I bought Ridenour's clarinets ... Some tests might be in order ... I know that the rubber instruments sound great and I've had zero problems!
Gosh, looks like the ideal material is still a ways off ... maybe a newly discovered element from outer space not on the periodic table ...
Tom
Post Edited (2016-05-07 16:55)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-07 17:46
Crappy hard rubber may have an issue outdoors but not Ridenours Clarinets.
He has had his Clarinets sitting in a car in the Summer in Texas heat - no problem with the material.
Debunking that one.
He called B.S. real fast on that.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-07 18:28
ASTM book "Symposium on the Applications of Synthetic Rubbers" quotes hard rubber softening temperatures as a range of 140-158 °F.
Reaching 140-160 °F ( 60-70 °C) is far from impossible under strong direct light, especially for a black material.
It is similar to an advantageous use of hard rubber softening for repairing scratches on the hard rubber mouthpieces using a hot incandescent light bulb.
P.S. Hard rubber softening point is a physicochemical phenomenon and beyond arguing or debunking in terms of "crap" and "not crap".
The same as the fact that had rubber can't be called natural material!
Post Edited (2016-05-07 18:46)
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-05-07 19:19
Post Edited (2016-05-07 19:33)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-07 19:59
Clarinet sitting on a hot sun may loose its correct bore dimensions without being touched by a player. What is absurd?
Pad loosening that may universally happen to all clarinets (hard rubber or wood) is arguably more easy to fix than the bore.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-05-07 21:24
I try to avoid playing clarinet in 150º weather.... anything over 130º is terribly uncomfortable!
Post Edited (2016-05-07 21:25)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-05-07 21:41
In fact, 140º is not at all hard to reach in a car on a 90 degree day according to those who cared to measure: http://wrvo.org/post/how-sun-and-your-car-can-create-dangerous-situation
Post Edited (2016-05-07 21:42)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-07 23:39
I've seen the effect of 130 degree temperature on an R13 Greenline that was set down on a chair in Iraq. It bent down around the thumb rest and has a lovely permanent curve........no affect on the sound though.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-05-08 01:38
But what idiot is going to leave their Clarinet sitting out in the Direct Sun??
The ambient air in a car even might get to 150, but the Clarinet in the case probably not more than 120 or so.
Which still is 25 degrees too hot for a Clarinet to be in.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: mamanvatsa
Date: 2016-05-08 21:04
The topic of the article is specifically about woodwind instruments. That is why it is here, otherwise I would have posted it in the chapter plastic-wind or rubber-wind instruments.
Post Edited (2016-05-08 21:05)
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Author: mamanvatsa
Date: 2016-05-08 21:32
"Everyone is allowed to play whatever silly-cone whistle he wants." - /Lord-of-the-reeds/
"The clarinet is a musical-instrument family belonging to the group known as the woodwind instruments." - (Wikipedia)
End of topic
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