 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DLE
Date: 2001-05-14 09:13
Hi.
I haven't posted for a while 'cause honetly I've had nothing important or interesting to post, until now.
A few days ago I spent the best part of 3 hours in my first rehearsal as 1st Clarinet of SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA. I haven't been in a proper orchestra for over 4 years - and for a while it was a little hard knowing when to come in, and to find your entry point in the music. I've never had this problem before - I found it significantly more difficult that day than any other rehearsal of Wind Band, or clari group. But it's a great laugh sitting at the back, looking at everyone else.
I guess the question is on orchestras in general.
In the middle to later part of your careers, do you find it more fulfilling playing in a big orchestra where you are one of on a few clarinettists? Or do you find Clarinet groups more exciting?
Does it even matter to you at that stage?
- Please write back
DLE.
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Author: susannah
Date: 2001-05-14 10:58
Well, as I am only 16 i wouldn''t know about that 'middle career' styff, but personaly, i find it way better in an orchestra. its pretty cool being able to play 'real' music, (not that there isn't real music for other ensmbles), I find that although the music itself may not be that technically challenging, (esp. classical stuff,, eg Beethoven, mozart etc), there is so much else to concentrate on, (often stuff which isn't that apparent in ensamble groups). Anyway, I'm not making much sense here, perhaps I'll write back later.
In short....
Orchestras RULE
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Author: Jodi
Date: 2001-05-14 12:52
I enjoy playing in orchestra about 70% of the time. Sometimes you get these pieces that just don't have a lot of writing for clarinet, so it can be rather boring sitting there counting a hundred or more rests. I find that for myself, I enjoy it more when playing first rather than second because then I get to play more.
The cool thing about orchestra is the fact that you are completely independent. There is no one else with your part, which means you have full responsiblity for playing the music- you often cannot take your cues off another person in your section. It's hard at first, but you will get better.
There IS good music out there for band and wind ensemble- it's up to the director to find it. One things I REALLY like more about band is that the music is more diverse. My orchestra conductor keeps to Beethoven, Stravinsky, Mozart, etc... While these guys are great, I wish that our selection was more diverse- music from someone other than dead European white guys. IN band, my conductor did this- we played a HUGE amount of different music from different cultures. It was exciting and interesting.
Jo
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-05-14 15:59
I recently had opportunity to listen to the community orchestra I hoped to join (note the past tense), in a very good acoustic setting.
As you have noted, little is actually written for the clarinet as an orchestral part.
Much as God has shown a predeliction to create beetles, composers have overstaffed the bandstand with strings.
It seems to be all about the strings, and violins in particular. When they're on, the piece zips... when they're off, they suck the air right out of the room.
The saddest part is that this is a community orchestra with paid members.
I can't see myself struggling to do well and have the balance sheet already stacked against success.
In short, I'll be looking for chamber work and Dixieland bands.
If I were to encourage a young person looking to a Symphonic carrier, I would put a bow in their hands.
Bowed but not beaten,
anji
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Author: jan
Date: 2001-05-14 16:14
when i was in college i played in orchestra, concert band, chamber ensemble and clarinet ensemble. i did not care for orchestra as much as the others. i found it difficult becuz the timing issue as you mentioned, and boring when counting and counting (which usually got off as my ears and mind wandered to what the strings were playing) only to play 2 lines of music before counting out another hundred rests. the other groups were just more fun (for me anyway). on the other hand, when it came time for my part, my playing wasnt buried by 15 other clarinets. it was just me and that was pretty cool.
good luck,
jan
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Author: William
Date: 2001-05-14 16:41
I, also, am in the "latter years" of my musical career. In retrospect, having played in all manner of bands, combos, orchestras, headliners, musical theater, ice shows (hasn't everyone??) and special ensembles, the kind of playing that I have enjoyed most was the one-one-a-part kind. My current "favorite gig" is with a semi-professional symphony orchestra (yearly contract with $ for all rehearsals and concerts) where I enjoy independence on my part and the opportunity for "pro level" musical performances of some of the best classical music written. I also currently enjoy, but to a much lesser degree, playing in three other concert bands, a weekend jazz combo, my own woodwind quintet and a "big band" made up of other retired local musicians (many Shriners) who performs on Monday afternoons at area retirement and nursing homes for free. My advice to you and any other adult player out there who cares to listen, is to get and STAY involved with some kind of musical activity. It's fun to play music (as you already know), a way to socialize with new friends and a great way to avoid the "couch potato" syndrome that is so tempting as we grow older. The extra $'s are kind of nice, too. To really answer your question, in playing music, I prefer to play one-to-a-part and lead rather than follow, as in a concert band clarinet section. Sorry I can't help you with your "counting" problem--lots of experiance and mental focus is often the only cure for that. However, GOOD CLARINETING, and good luck in your symphony!!!!!!!!
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Author: Kim
Date: 2001-05-14 17:18
I like and prefer playing in concert bands. There is superb music out there for the ensembles and really difficult transcriptions. Most of the transcriptions have the clarinets on the violins' melody and you can't follow. Haven't your director's ever told you not to anticipate? If you follow the person next to you, then you will come in early or late, or even worse, not at all!
Band music can be very independent too. Just recently, the wind ensemble in my college played Blue Shades, by Ticheli. There were multiple instrument solos and there were sections where the third clarinets were playing an ostinato alone. In another piece, Carmen Fantasie, the whole band accompanied the flute solo. Both of these pieces are superb pieces of music.
Now, I take a look at orchestral literature. Sure the music is great and all, but for who? The violins have the melody, while the wind players sit and count and count until it is their turn to play. I don't feel that is too exciting. For me, I'd rather be in a band all the way!
By the way, all music is "real" music. How can one consider any type of music not to be music at all? I actually make one exception to the rule: rap. ;-)
Best wishes,
Kim
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Author: Phil
Date: 2001-05-14 17:23
I have played and sung with everything from a clarient quartet to a large professional symphony. I have played anything from Bass clarient to Eb clarinets in all these groups(excluding the vocal groups of course). I must say that most of my playing time is with a wind band. However on the 5 or so occasions that I have been playing with the professional orchestra(I was just hired at the end of last season) I have enjoyed making music much more in the orchestra than in the wind band. I have to contribute this to certain factors though.
So many times in wind bands, expically from many colleges to high school/community bands perfection in performance and playing is not being attempted. Yes everyone is trying their hardest to play what is on the page, however the exactness to which things are played in the professional group is the thing i enjoy so much more. Not just playing Mozart, Poulenc, R. Strauss!!, Beethoven, etc. but the fact that every person in the orchestra is trying to achieve perfection in playing, breathing and all aspects of preformance. Where I don't always find this in the band acpect of my playing experience. Expically on the college level. And I'm not putting the blame solely on the students that playing these groups, but that the directors of many of these wind bands aren't asking for/expecting perfection of their students. The minute detaios are many times looked over for just attaining a general overall product.
This cannot be said of ALL wind ensembles. There are numerous wind bands that do achieve perfection to the degree of professional orchestras. there are groups where EVERY person is achieving absolute perfection and CONTROLL of every minute aspect of their playing(Eastman, and many other college wind ensembles, Dallas Wind symphony, Cincinatti Winds, and other professional wind groups).
So to answer the question, "Do i perfer playing in orchestra or band groups?" My answer would be both, AS LONG as perfection is expected and at least ATTEMPTED by each and every performer in the group. I feel this is something that is not being taught by private instructors in many situations and it is most definately not being expected by the conductors of these groups.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-14 18:20
Welcome back, DLE, it has been a while! Your very pertinent question has received many good comments above! I go with most [the flow], and recall in answer here to a "bio" question, my principal "favorites" were all classic-orch music! , most of which I have played on cl or oboe in times past. Now its comm band, church orch [not as challenging as symp] , musicals [which have the alone-on-the-part character of orch music!!] and a few trios/cl choir challenges! Its all fun still, arthuritis hasn't done too much damage Yet! Keep at it, Don
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Author: Pat
Date: 2001-05-14 23:59
I have found there is a lot of good things about orchestra. I like playing big works by composers like Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, Tchykovsky (sorry i can't spell his name for the life of me), and Dvorak to name a few. I found even resting and counting, i loved listening to the other stuff that goes on in certain peices. I really liked it when two years ago, my youth orchestra played the Tchckovsky violin concerto with Eugene Fodor. It was great to play that piece, and I had a lot fun listen to that concerto.
Right now I am finishing up my second year of undergrad work. I have played mostly in the wind ensemble at the school i am attending. I started to like it just as much orchestra. There was not as much resting done in that ensemble, and we got to record a cd this year that will hopefully be out next fall. It was something new that I had never done. I found being in that wind ensemble was good because, we didn't have extreme intonation problems like the previous ones i have been. Just that made me enjoy wind ensemble as much as orchestra.
There are days I really wish I was back in orchestra. I really wish I got into an orchestra this year. They played some great pieces with plenty of clarinet solos. I am hoping to make it in one next year.
I definatly prefer orchestra. I like playing the great works of great composers. I don't mind resting because i like to hear everything else that is going on. Even though I do prefer it, I also make the best of the situation. I never feel like it is the end of the world if i am not. This year for instance, I wasn't in an orchestra. I was placed in the wind ensemble which is a great ensemble. The great thing that happened this year was the fact the wind ensemble recorded a CD this year. This was a very good experience. None of the orchestras at my school recorded a CD. I also got to play the bass clarinet solo in La Fiesta Mexicana. I didn't miss out on anything not being in an orchestra. If I had to do it all over again, I would definatly do it again. I think I made out good in the end.
pat
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2001-05-15 04:36
I'm mid-career (being 41) and I like having diversity in my music making. With my current situation, I get to play about 14 different orchestral programs (8 concerts are repeated, for a total of 23 concerts) 175 quintet or mixed wind/string chamber performances, including about a bizillion childrens' shows, and I play in a big band and have an occasional tour with the New Sousa Band. I also conduct a semi-professional band. I have to admit that my slight preference is playing orchestral performances: First, I love the repertoire. Also, since everything I play is a solo, I have a lot of latitude in how I want to phrase things. It also helps that I have a great conductor and wonderful colleagues. I learn so much by listening to them play as I wait through rests. I enjoy playing in any ensemble, regardless of whether they're playing classical, pops, or whatever. The important thing for me is that the ensemble is made up of good musicians who try their best at all times.
Chris
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Author: dylan
Date: 2001-05-15 20:23
I'm 16 too and I have a decent amount of orchestral experience under my belt. Yes, I've played Mozart and Beethoven symphonies (fun and easy stuff), but now I'm working on Borodin's Polevesian Dances, Tsaich 4, and last year I did Copland's Rodeo. I couldn't really play the Copland, but I think I'm struggling through the Borodin and Tsaich 4 pretty well. FYI: not all orchestral clarinet music is as easy as Mozart and Betthoven. -Dylan
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-05-16 00:04
Beware of amateur conductors! They can seem nice but can turn nasty very easily. The poor old first clarinettist along with first horn and first trumpet are often bear the brunt of their frustrations. Try it and see if you enjoy it.
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Author: joseph o'kelly
Date: 2001-05-16 00:15
As much as I love classical music, playing music, listning to music, and wish to be a profesional clarinetist I can't stand playing in orchestras. I find it very boring. I love playing in small ensembles and doing solo work, however. I also love wind ensembles.
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Author: DLE
Date: 2001-05-16 09:46
What an amazing amount of posts in 2 days! I've kept the best ones on my new web address - they are really good ones. Thanks to everyone - but Mark Pinner: do not put down conductors - have you ever tried conducting?/are you a conductor? If you are, then you know how hard it can be.
I think overall that symphony orchestra is special - although wind orchestras + groups can be fun, with the right repetoire, and the right people. It all depends on the situation.
Here's a question: Does anyone absolutely hate symphony orchestras? - Why? Is it the tedious waiting for notes, and having to watch that boring conductor all the time? - Sorry conductors.
DLE.
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Author: Lindy
Date: 2001-05-16 09:52
If you have alot of rests in a part surely your director should be cueing your important entries for the peace of mind of you both!
If not, do you have cues of what other instruments are playing that you can follow?
If there are no cues you can mark entries of other instruments on your part, say you have 50 bars rest and the horn section comes in after 30, mark that on your part. I would advise using this to check that you have counted properly though, not as an excuse to avoid counting as this can be very dangerous.
Also make sure you count using your fingers as well as your head (you don't have to make it obvious) this should stop you getting lost so often.
Personally I prefer wind orchestra playing to getting lost in all those strings, but I usually take Eb or principal when I can to give me those little solo moments.
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