 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-07-27 11:33
I'm going to be honest when I say I can't tell the difference between most good clarinetists sound on recordings which really annoys me because people are always talking about somebodies darkness or round tone. I basically I have 3 categories of clarinet sound, good standard classical tone, horrendous plastic tone, and jazz clarinet( which varies a lot). And I fall into the first category and I try to get into the third at times. I also couldn't tell a difference when I swapped clarinets from my b12 to 576bc.
However recently I heard Clark Fobes play very briefly* and all I can say is that I finally understand what people are always talking about with tone. But I can't tell if I'm making progress towards a better sound. I also can't hear the same sound I heard from Clark with recordings.
I know a lot of this has been confusing, so if any clarification is required please feel free to ask.
*I was trying his mouthpieces at his home because I was visiting sf and he was very nice and accommodating, also makes very good mouthpieces
Post Edited (2015-07-27 11:34)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-07-27 12:54
I visited Clark Fobes last year, and was also blown away by his sound. I've had the chance to hear a few professionals up close in the last couple of years, and it's very different from hearing a recording.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-07-27 14:10
It's important to realize that the sound that you hear when you play is not the sound that a listener will hear. Until you record yourself playing you'll have no accurate idea of how you sound.
Tony F.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-07-28 08:35
When you hear a great musician in person, it usually becomes apparent why they are considered "great". It can be a paradigm shift.
I was fortunate to be an "on-location" recording engineer for many years, and worked hard for accuracy ... but experiencing the sound field of a real performance always put my recorded music to shame.
Tom
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-07-28 10:13
While all of this advice has been good, part of my question still remains. How can I start distinguishing tone? The only time, in which I've heard a sound that doesn't fit into the 3 categories was when I heard Clark play. I'd like to think I've progressed in my playing over the past few years, but I hear my self as the same I did 3 years ago.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-07-28 12:26
That's a very interesting idea and there is a highway bridge near by. What's your experience accommodation wise practicing under a bridge?
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-07-28 13:50
Silversorcerer wrote:
> Lately I've been
> rehearsing under a highway bridge. I heard that this is how
> John Coltrane rehearsed.
>
It was Sonny Rollins not JC.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-07-28 15:38
I'm concerned with the notion that you cannot distinguish amongst different clarinet sounds. I would assume though that most of your listening to others has been using recordings. My suggestion is to do most of your listening to others in a LIVE setting. There should be no shortage of live performances in the Berkeley area. Colleges offer many free recital opportunities.
To that end, listen to many DIFFERENT instrumentalists as well; piano, flute, horn, voice, anything that is available live. Hopefully listening to a vast cross section of different timbres (many various overtone series), you will build a greater ability to differentiate sounds.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: brycon
Date: 2015-07-28 19:43
Quote:
That is correct that it was Sonny Rollins who rehearsed under a bridge. My confusion, there.
It wasn't under a bridge; Sonny practiced on the walkway of the Williamsburg Bridge (underneath which is the East River). And it wasn't so that he could better hear his sound; it was so that he could get away from the issues of day-to-day life and practice for long stretches of time without irritating his neighbors.
To the OP, your ears aren't developed. There isn't really a way to quickly improve your ears, but if you listen to a lot of players live and record yourself often, they'll get better over time.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-07-28 21:47
I'll keep my eye out for more live performances, but I'm only in Berkeley for the summer and there's not much live stuff in Florida
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-07-29 00:47
Hmmm.........I think there are more than a few good colleges in Florida. You don't have to wait for Gil Shaham to hear a decent violinist, just go to student recitals (they are usually begging for audience members).
Or even street musicians. Don't just walk by and think "oh that's cool." Stop and really listen (particularly if they've drawn a crowd). Try to analyze what it is about they do that makes them appealing to you and others. Even spending five minutes listening to the guys who play on those five gallon plastic paint cans can be an invaluable lesson - and for my money, far more instructive than ANY recording.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2015-07-29 04:52
I tried rehearsing under a bridge, but the trolls threw me out. Do you think I should try a new reed?
Jerry
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Author: brycon
Date: 2015-07-29 05:16
Good advice, Paul.
Locke,
If you can't make it to live performances, you can listen to recordings (so long as it's active listening). When people talk about sounds, they're often talking about a confluence of things, which get lazily lumped together as someone's sound.
If you can try to disentangle these things as you listen, it may improve your ears. Try to focus your listening, for example, on a player's articulation, finger action, air stream, etc. Do they stop staccato notes with the tongue, air, or some combination? Is the air stream rather steady or flexible? And so forth. (I remember seeing/hearing a study where the attacks and tapers of pitches were lopped off; when you heard only the "middle" of notes, you couldn't tell what instrument was playing, which goes to show the importance of these types of things when we're talking about sound.)
If you're into jazz, listen especially for swing feel and articulation. An example I like to use to compare "sounds" is the album Sonny Side Up. Sonny Stitt plays on top of the beat throughout (Bird also played on top of the beat on most of his recordings), and Sonny Rollins plays all over the beat--sometimes ahead and sometimes way behind, really swinging. Sonny Rollins also articulates much more than Stitt or Bird would; one of the most characteristic features of Sonny's playing is the staccato upbeat eighth note at the beginning of lines.
At any rate, maybe that'll give you some ideas to work with.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-07-29 06:33
Where do you guys get recordings? I usually look on Youtube, but a lot of people tell me spotify and thoughts?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-07-29 06:57
I think if you want to hear the details you're talking about, you may need to pay for CDs or buy your digital tracks in flac or wav format. There's a lot of data loss from MP3 and I don't know what compression YouTube uses.
Karl
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Author: ned
Date: 2015-08-01 05:56
(LOCKE 9342) ''I also couldn't tell a difference when I swapped clarinets from my b12 to 576bc.''
It seems that you possibly don't need both instruments.
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(TONY F)''It's important to realize that the sound that you hear when you play is not the sound that a listener will hear.''
Quite possibly true. I'm having the same doubts currently, swapping from my ancient Hawkes & Son to a less ancient Buffet, only the opposite phenomenon is present - the instruments sound very different to ME - but in fact - ARE they?
********************
Perhaps it would be better for someone to accompany you (us?) to the shop when in the market for a new instrument.
********************
Then again, this makes perfect sense to me as well...(SILVERSORCERER)''One observation that trumpet players frequently make is that swapping out gear, even a completely different mp and horn, will result in a change of performance tone for perhaps a week. After that the player adapts to the instrument...''
The body has a remarkable ability to compensate for changing conditions, as does the brain.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2015-08-02 00:12
Totally agree on the brass sound....it is hilariously frustrating at times. Newer players will end up with a box full of mouthpieces trying to fix their sound, and mature players will tend to stick with the same equipment for years, having found out that each new $100 mouthpiece ends up sounding nearly the same as the last one. At that point they move to matching the mpc with the instrument, the one that allows it to respond the best.
I can hear differences in sound between clarinet players but the in-person sample I have is primarily amateurs. Even with my still very wet behind the ears sound, I find myself moving very much towards the same type of sound I get on violin and horn, now audible on the clarinet. Fascinating. I do not like a dark, muffy sound and will migrate towards a soft-edged, non-dramatic sound with some highs in it no matter the instrument, while still preferring the low range with a lot of core. I have noted that such a sound tends to carry better in a hall (on horn at least) much better than the dark muffy sound that many strive for.
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