 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Owen
Date: 2015-07-02 07:50
It appears so. I am surprised, but I recently had a lesson at his home during remodeling. So now that will probably be put on the market. A great loss for NYC losing a great pedagog and performer, but a great gain for Houston and D'Addario, who will now have Richie Hawley and Mark Nuccio in one city.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-07-02 13:27
Isn't Richie Hawley principal of the Cincinnati Symphony ?!!?
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-07-02 16:31
So he is not actively a full time orchestral player at the moment?
I want to clarify why I am jumping on the Richie Hawley thing. It is not to level criticism but rather to cast a light on a way to have a very lucrative career these days without your "traditional" end game. Many, many great players are graduating from fine music schools every year. The positions that open for them could be counted on one hand. But taking a much more open and creative look at the music landscape (all forms of performance and education) can yield some ideas that remain untapped.
Nothing I saw in Mr. Hawley's website said "former" member of CSO.
..................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2015-07-02 21:42)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-07-02 22:25
Comments and questions:
Mr. Hawley marks his seperation from performing as a principal clarinet in a major orchestra (i.e. the CSO) here:
https://youtu.be/ta8bG95GNr0?t=1m4s
Although I completely agree that the times demand [clarinet] performance majors to keep an open mind to positions other than as full time players in [financially solvent] symphonies (who also teach,) I'm a little confused how Mr. Hawley may personify that, if at all.
While not playing with such a symphony until career retirement may set him apart, (e.g. Drucker) Mr. Hawley's earlier performance centered career opened him up (rightfully so) for name recognition that paved the way for his placement at teaching positions (Rice, Music Academy of the West) that likely wouldn't be open to music major graduates soon after diplomas were issued, right?
Maybe I'm missing a point.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-07-03 01:40
Congratulations to Mark Nuccio. I wish him much success in Houston!
Dave, you raise an interesting point. When I was in college in the 70s, I knew many clarinet performance majors who graduated with masters degrees and found college teaching jobs. They weren't necessarily at the biggest or most prestigious institutions, but they found jobs.
I know several more-recent masters performance graduates, and they're struggling. They get by teaching private lessons, working in non-music jobs, and/or playing in regional orchestras. Some play gigs or perform in orchestra pits. There are some part-time jobs for them in small colleges and community colleges, but the job opportunities seem to be limited. Most colleges now seem to want a PhD or DMA, and even those degrees are not a guarantee that one will find stable employment.
For the fortunate few who find jobs with major orchestras, the lack of a PhD or DMA doesn't seem to be a problem if they want to teach in a college setting. It seems to me that having a Richie Hawley on your faculty does more to attract students than a teacher with a PhD, but little orchestral performance experience and name recognition. The second type of teacher might be wonderful and gradually make a name for himself or herself, but the first type brings in the serious performance majors. Please understand that this is in no way a slam against Richie Hawley--he's a great performer and teacher.
When I look at college faculty bios of clarinet professors, I notice something interesting. They usually start with "_______ is in great demand as a performer and clinician. He/she has performed solo recitals to great acclaim across the USA and Europe. ______ has performed with the ______ orchestra(s)." If the orchestras aren't well-known, several are listed to give the impression (perhaps correctly) that the teacher has extensive orchestral performance experience. Summer festival orchestras are also listed. A college teacher I once studied with (I'll omit his name) was an extra for one season with a major orchestra, and that's listed in his bio.
I really don't want to put these people down. Some are truly wonderful performers and teachers, and I give them credit for what they accomplished.
Still, I wonder if a few of those who did play in major orchestras look down a bit at those who never did.
Even though the following story doesn't prove anything, it has bothered me for many years. When I was working on a graduate degree in music ed., I studied briefly with a principal player in a major orchestra. He was an outstanding musician, but his personality left a lot to be desired. He saw me do something during a lesson, and became quite agitated.
"Where did you learn that?" he roared. I answered that an undergraduate teacher had suggested it. The former teacher did have some performance experience in a major orchestra, but this new teacher didn't seem to care. He then began quite a tirade.
"There are some teachers who teach in universities. They haven't performed in a major orchestra! They think they're so fancy with their PhDs! They sit in their offices all day and come up with silly little tricks--that's what they do!"
I was speechless. It was quite unprofessional, but I knew better than to say anything. My last lesson with him was a happy occasion.
Post Edited (2015-07-03 01:47)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-07-03 02:14
Wow, ok I unintentionally sent us in an interesting direction.
I ONLY meant to keep my question about Mr. Hawley's absence from the symphony from sounding derisive. Although as an example of carving a niche, he most certainly is. He has these very 'smart' videos of pieces he performs and is making quite the career as a clinician. Maybe he needed some prestige first but that's not the point. There are other big names NOT doing this.
As for what else one can do there are plenty of OTHER options. There are (or can be) more "performance" oriented groups that do more with staging and movement to bring things to life. There are groups that specialize in accompanying silent films or doing big tv oriented 'spectaculars' that feature costumes and schmaltz. Particularly in today's environment, it's a good idea to keep your options open.
But the other part about "this guy is the best," kinda misses an important point. The guy who wins the audition is the best guy who showed up that day (boiling it down). There could be plenty of others out there that just didn't go to the audition or were busy doing other commitments. And that is the down side to the number of jobs vs the number who are qualified. One guy can can hold a job for 30 or 50 years. During that time any number of other "also" highly qualified women and men will have come and gone. Not the first guy's fault, but that's what happens.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-07-03 03:03
A PHD is a joke compared to Orchestral Performance experience IF the Orchestral player is a very good teacher.
And that PHD is also only as good as the teacher whom he/she got it from.
You can't get ability from a degree, only from a great instructor, hard work, and talent.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2015-07-03 03:39)
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2015-07-04 04:35
Very interesting conversation but I think most of you are missing the mark.
> Now a days there are some very fine players with doctorates running around and they teach and often specialize in music outside of the orchestral rep (like Robert Spring, David Shifrin and many of their students). They quite intentionally have pursued a different path.
> Orchestral playing is very specialized but just because someone is a principal player does not make them a good or dedicated teacher. There have been some very fine teachers who never really played professionally in an orchestra (Russianoff, Dorthy DeLay (violin), and even Gilad in our day). So put that idea to rest.
> There are many fine players in major cities like NYC, Chicago, and LA that do not want to teach in the middle of Iowa at some two-stop light town where the student quality is middling at best. Much better to live in a big city from a life style standpoint and work in a variety of ways including doing things outside of music. Can't think about how isolated some of those academic jobs are and how many times one would have to teach the basic repertoire over and over again until pension day.
> The mayor of Houston and its City Council have officially changed the name of the city to D'ADARRIO and the surrounding county is now RICO.
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Author: Owen
Date: 2015-07-04 08:09
Agreed, on great clarinetists with doctorates. People like Robert Spring have constantly been innovating the clarinet field. In any industry if a company is not constantly trying to innovate and get to the front of the market they are falling behind.
I at first thought it was great for D'addario/Rico to have Mark Nuccio and Richie Hawley in Houston, Texas, but that could have the company lose appeal in major cities like NYC.
Post Edited (2015-07-04 08:10)
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2015-07-07 21:00
Quote:
A PHD is a joke compared to Orchestral Performance experience IF the Orchestral player is a very good teacher.
A DMA has also been dubbed "Doesn't Mean Anything" degree...I first heard this from a DMA Candidate at Rutgers who is actually one hell of a player. Gotta have a good sense of humor about it after all....
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