 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-11-13 00:09
Hi,
I am thinking of changing my mouthpiece (BD5) to something that would be easier to control.
I am not sure if I need to look for a MP with a longer facing length and same tip opening or I need to chose a MP with both smaller opening and longer facing length, or smaller opening and similar facing length.
BD5 (my current MP): opening 1.13mm; Medium facing.
Based on Vandoren chart, I am considering the following MPs:
M30 Lyre: opening 1.135mm; Long facing.
M15: opening 1.035mm; Long facing.
5RV opening 1.09mm; Medium facing.
Can anyone advise? I am open to other MP makers, but need a starting point/direction so Vandoren looks like a good affordable option (for now).
Thank you
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Author: kdk
Date: 2022-11-13 00:45
A lot depends on what "easier to control" means. I doubt if the longer facing of the M30 would make a big difference. You might want to go to the opposite end of the spectrum - the M15 from your list or even an M13Lyre and see what that kind of a facing feels like. I don't know what the online vendors' return policies are right now - especially since COVID stopped many of them from accepting returns at all - but the quickest approach may be to order one of each and return the ones you don't like. If returns are allowed and you buy one of them, some vendors waive any restocking fee.
But keep in mind that "control" (meaning, to me, mostly stable pitch and quick response) can be facilitated or not by other factors - the rail thickness, the baffle shape just behind the tip, even the throat shape, and two mouthpieces with the same nominal facing may produce quite different results.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-11-13 02:26
I would say the very BEST option would be to sit down with one of our fine mouthpiece makers; Clark Fobes, David McClune, Walter Grabner, Brad Behn, Raymond Wodkowski, Ben Redwine and try various mouthpieces that are close to what you know you like. The description of what you like and don't like can go a long way to getting better options from one of these fine artists.
I have been fitting my mouthpieces to my reeds (Legere Euro Cut 3.5s) for a while now. I THOUGHT I knew what I was doing when I sat down with Clark Fobes a few days ago with one mouthpiece I loved and a Fobes that I used to like just a few years ago. I assumed that the facings being quite close to each other (medium close....generally speaking, but even more similar in detail) that Clark could simply adjust the facing on his mouthpiece to make it a copy of the one that works better for me. He did. It didn't.
What was the difference?
Turns out the one that has my attention these days is made from a specific Zinner blank known as an "A Blank." This Zinner blank has a deeper baffle (what I thought only made the sound less filled with overtones) and an associated smaller throat (opening from the tone chamber into the bore). For me, this allows me to push more, and "ride the air" (only way I can put it into words.......sorry) and not have the sound pinch off at low volume levels. Clark pulled out one of his CWF mouthpieces, put the facing I love on it and BAM.......it worked like a charm.
So there IS more to the equation (unfortunately) than the Brand Scale numbers of a facing length and tip opening (and the various associated curves). When mouthpiece makers and dealers say, "you have to try the mouthpiece," that is actually pretty good advice. I do however still advocate trying to narrow the search by having more details available but it is still a matter of doing the hard work of being open minded and allowing for surprises.
.................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2022-11-13 02:34)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-11-13 02:34
Yes, M series is marketed that way but they just play a little lower and can be used on any Bb clarinet.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2022-11-13 03:21
Hi there M1964,
As someone who finds the BD5 quite playable initially, and tiresome fairly soon after, we might be "in the same boat" (or at least a similar one).
- It's no secret that the resistance/hardness of a mouthpiece is the result of many different properties (as said above, rail thickness, baffle profile, throat etc all come into play).
- in theory we should be able to adjust to different "hardness" by just using a softer reed but it doesn't really seem to work that way as our playing/embouchure interacts differently with resistance in different parts of the set up....
I call this the "resistance profile" and find that two mouthpieces can have radically different tip openings but still be quite playable for me as long as the share a resistance profile.
As someone who has done a LOT of refacing over the years, I can also testify that a small difference in the CURVE, and/or the interior of the mouthpiece, can make a big difference. Bear in mind something that seems a SMALL DIFFERENCE during the initial notes, can become a BIG DIFFERENCE over 30min of playing.
EXAMPLE- mouthpiece refaced for an NZSO player who loved maximum resistance and super hard reeds. He moved on to something else, a colleague tried out the unused mouthpiece and loved it, but always felt they were having to work a little more with their embouchure to get articulation to work. Taking some excess material out of the step (thus deepening the throat without widening it) was enough to loosen up articulated notes for this player (it also robbed a little of the focus in the lowest notes of the range, but not drastically).
So how does this all relate to your OP?
I would say that from the 3 mouthpieces you mention, you'll find the M30 the easiest to adapt to.
The M15 I like, will need slightly harder reeds, but will also be a LONG WAY in the other direction from BD5, you will get a lot of freedom but not much security.
The 5RV Lyre, I think SHOULD be a good mouthpiece but I always find the CURVE too stiffling... a fraction more length to the facing and small adjustment to the curve and these can sing.
I'm probably an outlier on the 5RV Lyre- I basically think it *should* have a facing like the D'darrio Evolution and change it to that. Others might say "just buy an evolution then"!
I reckon you'll like the M30 though!
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-11-13 06:26
Thanks to everyone who replied.
I am going to see a very knowledgeable performer/teacher who also runs a clarinet shop and prob. has many MPs to choose from.
Just wanted to get a general idea if I am thinking in the right direction.
Just FYI: I originally played on B45, then switched to B40 due to "excessive" brightness of my B45, then switched to BD5 in order to reduce amount of strain on my embouchure.
I will update this thread when/if I get a new MP with my impressions.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2022-11-13 08:12
Regarding some points that Paul made-
I agree that the only way to know for sure is to play the mouthpiece. There are other dimensions that all affect playability in their own subtle way. Sometimes "the numbers" might seem right but other factors don't work for you.
I also agree that you might want to contact a mouthpiece maker and discuss your needs. Many of them are really good about translating that into something that will work for you.
Clark makes excellent mouthpieces and is really receptive to the player's needs. Send him and email or give him a call. The other makers listed also do very good work.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-11-14 12:01
Ed wrote:
> Regarding some points that Paul made-
>
> I agree that the only way to know for sure is to play the
> mouthpiece. There are other dimensions that all affect
> playability in their own subtle way. Sometimes "the numbers"
> might seem right but other factors don't work for you.
>
> I also agree that you might want to contact a mouthpiece maker
> and discuss your needs. Many of them are really good about
> translating that into something that will work for you.
>
> Clark makes excellent mouthpieces and is really receptive to
> the player's needs. Send him and email or give him a call. The
> other makers listed also do very good work.
Ed, Thank you- I believe the shop I am going to has a few MP's made by Clark Fobes.
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