 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: personwithaclarinet
Date: 2014-06-05 05:17
Hi! I'm 15, almost 16, and I've been playing clarinet for 4 years on a plastic Yamaha Advantage. It has served me well but my teacher says is would be worth my while to get a better clarinet now and I agree. I don't know whether I want to play professionally when I'm older but I know that I love music and want to continue playing the clarinet at least as a hobby.
So where do I start? Should I get an intermediate clarinet or a pro model? What's the piece range like for either of those? What factors should I consider?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2014-06-05 05:44
Depending on what you want to spend, I would say go with a used or new pro model. There are plenty of used ones out there at good prices, so you can save a little cash. I would not bother with an intermediate instrument because you will likely want a pro horn down the road, so why buy twice?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-06-06 01:03
Sounds like you weenie soprano clarinetists who think a Recital is HEAVY should either pump iron in your spare time or play some of the lower clarinets for a while. Jeez......
:)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-06-06 01:16
I'm the one who posted about the weight of the Recital - and I'd wager that I can super squat machine squat more weight than any member of this board.....
But it's not brute strength that I'm talking about, it's the wear on the thumb without a neckstrap - and I hate neckstraps.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Titus
Date: 2014-06-06 01:19
Same situation as you...
What do people think about the Backun Protege with a moba barrel? 23000 combined from most sites
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-06-06 01:21
It improves the Protégé a LOT - however, the main thing is to get the Protégé set up properly if it is leaking at all. That can occur after shipping, etc, or just might take some work to get it to 100%.
All Clarinets (bar none) do.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Titus
Date: 2014-06-06 01:29
David, I will get it set up. I live close enough to Muncy Winds as it is....
I don't need a Tosca or Moba yet. Or might never will. But my teacher agrees I've outgrown my student model. Just trying gauge my options. If the protege performs just as well as a good r13 (not asking for a specific "r13" tone but fluidity, intonation, heft).... At that price too. It's worth it.
Considering that, the r13 or even the libertas. One advantage of the r13 is that there are many reliable shoes that sell used ones and are willing to set them up, or even find a new one that is a good for you.
Post Edited (2014-06-06 01:30)
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-06-06 02:06
You should really consider a good used Opus or Concerto. . Many of these clarinets are up for grabs at INSANE prices. . And believe you me, they are GOOD. I wish I had known about them when I was getting my clarinet.
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-06-06 02:18
I was in the exact same situation as you just a little while ago. I am also 16 and also played on a yamaha advantage for 4 years. I have just recently upgraded to a Buffet E13 (which is a r13 with a small defect) which I love, but knowing what I know now i would definitely get a Backun Protege. Alot of R13's have intonation problems so they are very hit or miss. The Selmers are a little richer sounding but are also heavier. I personally don't like the Yamaha's. Leblanc Bliss, Lyrique, and Symphony are all great but mainly because they were designed with Backun so why not just buy a Protege? If you do go with the Protege try both the cocobolo and grenadilla models. I personally love the sound of the cocobolo but the grenadilla is a little brighter so maybe you want that. Plus many of the players in your band probably play on grenadilla instruments so you may have a slightly easier time matching tone. As far as intermediate horns go the new E12F is fantastic. I recently got a chance to play it and I found the sound and intonation to be superb in all registers.
As far as price goes:
Used Leblanc Bliss: $700-1000 on eBay
Used Protege: $800-1200 on eBay
Used R13: $1000-3000
New Protege Cocobolo: $2500ish
New E12F: $1200-1500
New R13: $3000-3500
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-06-06 02:37
I don't think that the R13 has bad intonation problems- I think that players have bad intonation problems. And the Lyrique is made by Tom Ridenour, and the old Symphonies were before Ridenour and Backun's time.
The Leblanc Bliss wasn't a model I recommended because of inherent mechanical problems that I don't like. Otherwise, they do sound fine.
I don't know anything about the Protege clarinets, but I don't like Backun barrels and bells, so I wouldn't know what to expect with the full clarinet. If you want to go with a boutique clarinet, a Protege may serve you well. I just can't comment on the Protege because I have never personally played it, other than the barrels and bells.
Why don't you email Gary Gray or Yehuda Gilad about getting a better horn, since you are in California? Maybe they could be of more personal help to you.
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-06-06 02:47
tylerleecutts wrote:
> I don't think that the R13 has bad intonation problems- I think
> that players have bad intonation problems. And the Lyrique is
> made by Tom Ridenour, and the old Symphonies were before
> Ridenour and Backun's time.
Sorry about the Leblanc stuff I got confused. As for the R13's I never said the intonation problems were bad but I have heard them. Just today our principal clarinetist who has and R13 was playing about 15 cents sharp on the throat G, even after she had dropped the right hand and used a Chadash barrell.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-06-06 03:26
I know the throat G is a problem for many students to get down to pitch. . If she is using a 442 mouthpiece, this could throw her sharp, among other things. I have heard intonation problems among the best players and the best equipment- what discerns them from being the best and being just better is how quick they fix it.
Maybe her reed is too hard? A reed that is too stiff for a facing or embouchure can throw pitch up as well, and sometimes wildly.
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Author: Titus
Date: 2014-06-06 04:31
Tyler,
Leblanc Opus and Concertos are much more difficult to find than good used (and fully serviced) r13s in the 1.5-2.5k range from boutique shops as well a new backun protege with that moba barrel....
Last one I saw was being sold by tom ridenour... I don't know what has happened to that.
I'm in no rush to upgrade, I might have outgrown my current model but it is sill enjoyable to play. I fully plan to do my homework before settling.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-06-06 05:50
Of course anything but an R13 is difficult to find. Not many shops have a full selection of the main brands, much less a good used clarinet.
If you have to upgrade a Protege to get it where you would like it to be, is it really worth it? The last thing you need as a young student is a shoebox full of barrels, bells, and mouthpieces. .
If you wanted a Concerto or Opus, rest assured that you WILL find one. It's just a matter of emailing and phone calls.
And don't forget the SEV and CSV clarinets- those are very good as well. Just trying to give you all the options you have. .
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Author: Titus
Date: 2014-06-06 06:04
Tyler, I appreciate your help! I will be sure to look into all of these in the coming months. I am especially intrigued by the Yamahas, which are reputed to be good value.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2014-06-06 07:54
aa9934 wrote:
> I have just recently upgraded to a Buffet E13 (which is a r13 with a small defect)
Where ever you found that information, lose it, since it's laughably incorrect.
...GBK
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-06-06 19:27
GBK wrote:
>
> Where ever you found that information, lose it, since it's
> laughably incorrect.
>
yes it is an urban legend based on R13 rejects sold as Academy Model.. and supposedly sold as Evette & Schaeffer Master as well.
Add E&S -> E13, and here you have it
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-06-06 23:59
cyclopathic wrote:
> GBK wrote:
>
> >
> > Where ever you found that information, lose it, since it's
> > laughably incorrect.
> >
>
> yes it is an urban legend based on R13 rejects sold as Academy
> Model.. and supposedly sold as Evette & Schaeffer Master as
> well.
>
> Add E&S -> E13, and here you have it
Well I stand corrected. I apologize for saying the wrong thing I was imply repeating what I had heard before. As for the ACTUAL topic of this thread I'm still for the Protege if you can afford it.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-06-07 01:04
Titus wrote:
"Leblanc Opus and Concertos are much more difficult to find than good used (and fully serviced) r13s in the 1.5-2.5k range from boutique shops as well a new backun protege with that moba barrel...."
Just to be clear- what I meant by a "boutique" clarinet is a clarinet made by a smaller manufacturer, and a clarinet that a lot of people do not buy. I mean a clarinet that does not have a considerable amount of market share compared to the larger manufacturers (Buffet, Selmer, Yamaha, etc.).
boutique: of or denoting a small specialized producer or business
What I did not mean is a used clarinet from your music store, or a new instrument from a dealer.
Let me make this clear as well- the Backun Protege may very well be a great instrument. But let's face it- it's a lot harder to find a Backun dealer than a Buffet or Selmer dealer. And then what you're faced with is having a clarinet shipped to you to try- which could very well have suffered a bent key or pad in the process. Then, you're really not getting a good view of the instrument. And again, the Protege could be a good instrument. But the odds are that you won't find too many shops that house them, or that repair them (this is very important).
What I have a real problem with is that when I've talked to those who sell the Backun clairnets, or sell Backun products, they always try to sell me a barrel and bell. If its not good enough for me to buy without a bunch of bells and whistles (no pun intended), then how good is it really?
For some self-education on this concept, watch this handy video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5mK6h-HFO8
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-06-07 06:54
tylerleecutts wrote:
> Titus wrote:
>
> "Leblanc Opus and Concertos are much more difficult to find
> than good used (and fully serviced) r13s in the 1.5-2.5k range
> from boutique shops as well a new backun protege with that moba
> barrel...."
>
> Just to be clear- what I meant by a "boutique" clarinet is a
> clarinet made by a smaller manufacturer, and a clarinet that a
> lot of people do not buy. I mean a clarinet that does not have
> a considerable amount of market share compared to the larger
> manufacturers (Buffet, Selmer, Yamaha, etc.).
>
> boutique: of or denoting a small specialized producer or
> business
>
> What I did not mean is a used clarinet from your music store,
> or a new instrument from a dealer.
>
> Let me make this clear as well- the Backun Protege may very
> well be a great instrument. But let's face it- it's a lot
> harder to find a Backun dealer than a Buffet or Selmer dealer.
> And then what you're faced with is having a clarinet shipped to
> you to try- which could very well have suffered a bent key or
> pad in the process. Then, you're really not getting a good view
> of the instrument. And again, the Protege could be a good
> instrument. But the odds are that you won't find too many shops
> that house them, or that repair them (this is very important).
>
> What I have a real problem with is that when I've talked to
> those who sell the Backun clairnets, or sell Backun products,
> they always try to sell me a barrel and bell. If its not good
> enough for me to buy without a bunch of bells and whistles (no
> pun intended), then how good is it really?
>
> For some self-education on this concept, watch this handy
> video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5mK6h-HFO8
>
This is a very good point. Although the Protege (in my personal opinion) may
have the best sound, there are many other wonderful brand name clarinets out there. If you are afraid of taking the risks of having one of these clarinets the new Buffet E12F really is just superb. The one I played was really well tuned and the sound opened up very nicely.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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