 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-04-01 14:55
We've recently had survey questions finding out who we are and what we play. We havent done one on repairing your own clarinet. Do you work on your own horns and to what extent?
As for me, I started doing all my own repair work a few months ago after I got an instrument back in worse shape than it went in. I did heavy regulation on my Evette, some minor regulation on my LeBlanc as well as putting back on a pad that fell off (no easy task). In addition, I am working on rebuilding an A clarinet that I bought on ebay. That job will include stripping the finish, rilling a crack and its pin holes properly (it's a slop job now) and a full repad. I think it's almost as much fun to work on them as it is to play them.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: techband
Date: 1999-04-01 16:18
Unless you've been trained through an apprenticeship or technical school there are a lot of things that can and will go wrong doing major overhauls yourself. Players should stick with doing minor adjustments and pad replaceing when they feel comfortable. I suggest you find a good repair tech in your area. Ask around and get feed back from the pros and college people. As a repair tech, I get disgusted when I have to straighten out someone's mess when they have tried to do major work themselves and screwed it up. There are good techs out there. You just got one of the few who give us all bad reps.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-04-01 17:02
Well said Techband -I attempt minor repairing and always try to bear in mind the "point of no return" , and do want to avoid comments [friendly advice as well as sarcastic "why dont you leave it to a pro" ]. My corking is not bad, and I frequently get a "tight" pad job [small], Rick, but beyond that is my "no man's" territory. Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-04-01 18:59
Ok, so my bachelors in physics and masters engineering, and my natural mechanical aptitude are completely meaningless. I forgot that woodwinds are rocket science and should not be touched by anyone who isn't a certified technician. There are no people in existance smart enough to figure out why a clarinet leaks without being properly trained. Even if you read the Erick Brand repair manual, thats not enough because it is written in secret code and only certified technicians have the decoder ring. I'll immediately take the clarinet I intend to rebuild to your shop and take back all the supplies I bought. It's hopeless because I haven't been apprenticed.
I'm getting pretty sick of repair technicians telling me not to work on my own horns. Go stuff it. I've been told that it involves a large number of expensive tools: False for most repairs. I've been told that it takes years of apprenticechip to learn to properly regulate a horn. Bull, I regulated my horns quite well my first try, doing a hell of a lot better job than the repair shop did. They say that to try to convince you to take your horn into their shop so they dont lose your business.
The clarinet is an elegant machine, but it is not a very complicated one. I think it's pretty arrogant to think that there's nobody out there that can rebuild one without being trained. As a matter of fact, I just read an article in today's SF chronicle about a particle physicist who makes violins in his spare time, selling them to professional violinists. His instructor? Oh, his father was a cabinetmaker. The rest he learned on his own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-04-01 19:13
Oh, come on Rick, its not all that well defined where to stop "learning" our favorite inst. I frequently use my Chem Eng training to approach my mechanical skills, even if my friend [a pro repairer] looks at me and just shakes his head. We always have and will continue to learn from our mistakes, even an old guffer like me!!! Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tecband
Date: 1999-04-01 19:37
Maybe you are competent to work on your own instrument. I can not argue that until I see your work. You are correct that most things on a clarinet are common sense and there is a logical approach to "most" things. It is true, though, there are some jobs you can not do without investing in equipment and tools. Broken tenons and chimneys can not be replaced with a hacksaw. Have you priced a "good" lathe lately? Or, how about the jigs and presses to accompany the drill press for properly undercutting tone holes, not to mention the price of the cutters themselves? All I am saying is that in my years of repairing instruments I know of only a few performers that are really comfortable working on their own instruments. If you feel competent, go to it!
Techband
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-04-01 19:50
Please note that I am writing this BEFORE I read the responses to what I wrote a half hour ago. I want to apologize to tecband for the statement "go stuff it." I had no right to get personal and the entire post of that message was surly and uncalled for.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ginny
Date: 1999-04-01 20:05
Rick2: regarding the lathe, we have one you can use if this comes up. It's old but decent. Some other tools too.
Ginny
Also, regarding home repairs. One of the finest classical guitar makers in the USA started this way. Eventually he quit his job as an engineer/rocket scientist to go pro. He applied real engineering principals to guitar repair and design. Last I heard his instruments had a ten or fifteen year waiting list.
I enjoy instrument repairs of all kinds myself (no fret jobs though.) My husband just lathed a new mouthpiece for one of his ethnic flutes, its really nice. Leave it to the pros indeed, some pros started out with a hobby.
Ginny
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-04-01 20:14
Regarding the broken tenons and such. One of the main reasons I am investing time and money into rebuilding horns in the first place is to teach myself a low-stress trade for after I retire from the high-stress world of high-tech engineering. So in some sense, I am in my apprenticeship right now, only my masters are Mr. Trial and Error, and Mr. REsearch. Thus, I am fully aware that there are some instances where tools are required that aren't typically in the average toolbox. My approach to that is the same as with any other job, that is, buy the tool when you need it. When I decide it's time to pin my own cracks or spin new tenons out of a block of grenadilla, I'll get the lathe. Whether it's a new one or I go get one at a flea market is a decision for then, not now. Still, If I had to guess, I'd say that probably 80% of the work a typical repair shop will do on woodwinds is repad, and regulate. That 80% you can get the job done using under $100 worth of tools. Not that those tools will necessarily be the best tool for the job, but you can get the job done. My first pad was put on with a candle because I didn't have anything else. It's that other 20% of the work that needs all the expensive equipment.
Sorry again for the tone of my first response. I actually started this thread in the hopes of pinning (pardon the pun) down who the people who work on their own horns and who the repair people are that frequent this board. You are right that most people should bring in their instruments, but there are people here who really do want to work on horns, and if they survive the initial warnings about the problems with it and still want to work on them, those who know should support and help those who dont know but want to.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 1999-04-01 20:23
May I add a question? Does anyone who is not a professional repairperson repair their own bass or lower clarinet beyond replacing pads or cork? The keywork is so complicated, I would be afraid to take any of it off and try to get it back on.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 1999-04-02 00:33
On my junker clarinet, I do not hesitate to do any repadding, regulating, or normal maintenance that is required. I am perfectly comfortable totally stripping the horn down (and have done so a couple of times), cleaning, adjusting springs, and re-assembling. On this one I, if the keys get bent, I'll straighten them. Since I am not interested in repair as a major hobby, I have no interest in things like tenon or tone hole replacment or pinning cracks.
For the intermediate instrument my daughter uses and my good horn, I'll do emergency pad replacement or spring adjustment but will sooner or later take it to a technician I trust for a checkout. These two, I'll take in every couple of years for such a checkout even if I haven't done any emergency repairs and even if nothing appears wrong.
The little Selmer Bundy Eb, I'll probably do most of my own maintenance (i.e. repad) but there is a post that is a little twisted and a rod slightly bent, I'll have the tech do that as I can't get the screw out without the risk of doing some damage on this one. It plays and seats but I want it right.
Two old Alberts: I have completely dismanteled, cleaned, and re-assembled. The repad, new springs, and regulation I will do myself as they are mainly just to have and play occasionally.
Old metal clarinet: Planning on repad, springs and regulation myself.
I do NOT plan to get into any re-soldering of keys. That I will take to a trained expert to do.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Snowjacks
Date: 1999-04-02 00:33
Yes, I successfully do my own Bass and Alto clarinent repair work, although I would not attempt anything elaborate such as a crack repair. I'm a mechanical engineer with a BS/MS, and I've been a musician for 33 years.
The register key mechanisms are quite sensitive to adjustment, particularly on a Bass or Contrabass, and one needs to thoroughly understand the interrelationships of the mechanisms before attempting any adjustments. It is definitely not a job for trial and error, or for a "hammer mechanic". Some bass clarinents need frequent tweaking, such as a 60 year old Peddler Bass that I own. My Buffets require a lot less adjustment. I've purchased one piece cases for all of my Bass Clarinents to avoid taking them apart at the middle joint, a practice which I find greatly reduces the need for adjustment and repair.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-04-02 03:09
Well said, Dee and Snowjacks, you have pretty well described the degree of repair that I feel competent to attempt, particularly re: alto and bass which can be very tricky. I believe this entire thread has been helpful to many of us, thanks, Rick.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron
Date: 1999-04-02 08:36
I have played Albert system horns since high school ('54), a hitch in the Air Force (4 yrs) and several years after that in night clubs, dance bands and such and occassionally 'country western' outfits (doubling on tenor sax). And sometimes just jammin' in the park for fun. I gave up that life-style for a more stable family one for many, many years with no regrets.
During HS summers, then again after the AF stint, I worked in a repair shop, for a total of about three years. Since I retired three years ago I have taken up the horn again. I sort of collect and restore old horns too as a 'hobby', not a business. I do all but the more 'technical' stuff myself, pads, cork, springs etc. and I enjoy doing it. I don't have the tools for major things like large cracks or tenon replacements so, if something like that should come up, I'd take it to the local tech I'm on good terms with. I'm not a competitor so he's very helpful and usually has so much work he doesn't care if I'm a do-it-yourselfer. His comment - '... you'll save a lot of money.'
My instruments aren't 'collector's items' so I have no qualms about messing up. Of course, I don't :] Even though I have some past experience, I found then and I find now that it's an ongoing learning process. None of the techs I worked with thought they knew it all and the good ones were and are willing to share their knowledge and experience - with me anyway. I hope to never alter my attitude about that.
I too have gotten horns back in worse shape that when I took 'em in, Rick2. That's aggravating and no small part of my own personal list of reasons for doing it myself.
Hope we can keep this a survey, not a debate.
Regards,
Ron in Sacramento, CA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 1999-04-02 13:53
To Rick2,
Also remember that the poor repair techs have seen some really bungled jobs by amateurs who don't have any of the mechanical aptitude or training or even common sense that your postings show. I know you "cruise" eBay and suspect that you have seen some of the nasty looking repairs that are shown on some of those instruments. Just keep this in mind when some one gets nervous when you talk about doing your own and be tolerant with them. There was one instrument that I would have liked to bid on but it had been so badly repaired that I had no interest in buying it and then getting it fixed.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-04-02 16:12
Dee,
A lot of what you said occurred to me in the half hour between my initial response to tecband and my subsequent apology. I really need to stop writing when I'm blinded and cool off first. That in itself is a life-long learning process for a type-A personality and it's easy to regress.
Might I suggest a regular thread here for those of us working on our clarinets? Whenever we get trhough doing something interesting we can pass along what we learned.
Regarding what Ron says about cracks and tenon replacement, I must confess that if I were to have a crack tomorrow, I wouldnt have the facilities to try to fix it as I don't have a workshop right now. I would be forced by situation to have somebody do the pinning for me. But I would do the finishing myself as I intend to do on this A clar. I'd also be a lot more active on ebay if I didn't have a wife to answer to when I spend monay there. It is fun to cruise ebay because there are some pretty strange things on auction there, and you get the occasional guy who simply wants far more than an item is worth and its fun to watch nobody bid on it. Like the guy trying to sell his 286 computer for near what he paid for it new.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SeAn
Date: 1999-04-02 16:51
...Might I suggest a regular thread here for those of us working on our clarinets? Whenever we get trhough doing something interesting we can pass along what we learned.
------------------------------
that will be interesting. I do minor adjustments and some repadding when required. while I enjoy working on my own horn, sometimes I learn the hard way thru trial and error (on older horns).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-04-02 17:53
I'd like to repeat a suggestion I put on elsewhere re: right hand thumb and 3rd finger problems on some horns when accessing the rt. hand lf low E/B key, that is, to relocate [elevate] the thumb rest [in the simplest manner possible] by taking it off, reversing it, putting it back on , and then compensating for curvature by use of a rubber "cushion" [cost $1 or less]. It has been helpful to me on my LeB L7 and my 1954 [BT or CT ?] Selmer and is well within our amateur repair abilities. Of course if one wishes a neckstrap, a new T R is needed. Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 1999-04-02 19:11
Rick2 wrote:
-------------------------------
Dee,
A lot of what you said occurred to me in the half hour between my initial response to tecband and my subsequent apology. I really need to stop writing when I'm blinded and cool off first. That in itself is a life-long learning process for a type-A personality and it's easy to regress.
Might I suggest a regular thread here for those of us working on our clarinets? Whenever we get trhough doing something interesting we can pass along what we learned.
Regarding what Ron says about cracks and tenon replacement, I must confess that if I were to have a crack tomorrow, I wouldnt have the facilities to try to fix it as I don't have a workshop right now. I would be forced by situation to have somebody do the pinning for me. But I would do the finishing myself as I intend to do on this A clar. I'd also be a lot more active on ebay if I didn't have a wife to answer to when I spend monay there. It is fun to cruise ebay because there are some pretty strange things on auction there, and you get the occasional guy who simply wants far more than an item is worth and its fun to watch nobody bid on it. Like the guy trying to sell his 286 computer for near what he paid for it new.
-------------------------------
Ah well, even us type B people can blow up now and then.
I don't bother to look at the computers but it doesn't surprise me. You really see this every where with just about any category of used item. Personally I try to apply my personal philosophy that a used item (in general and exceptions do exist) is worth no more than half the normal discount price. Otherwise I might just as well go buy new. As I said I do allow myself some exceptions. Collectibles would be one. Or items that are unobtainable such as out of print books or videos. Or items where the new price is very high and the used item is in exceptional condition. Here I might go as high as 2/3 when the difference between new and used amounts to several hundreds of dollars.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 1999-04-06 16:56
I've been doing all work, including some major stuff, on all my horns (clarinets, saxes, and flute) for about the last 15 years. This includes complete overhauls, installing tone hole inserts, slight tone hole undercutting, modifying keys, and recently cutting off the neck on my Vito bass clarinet and re-soldering it together at a sharper angle (very successful job, by the way, but one which few professional technicians would touch, much less amateurs like myself!) I've also refaced/re-chambered all my mouthpieces during the same time period. Needless to say, I'm unusually bold in my repairs, but I'm a mechanical engineer by trade and I restore old cars for fun, so I've got a better background for this sort of thing than most people.
Dave Spiegelthal
Calverton, VA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: paul
Date: 1999-04-09 17:20
Okay guys, I'll represent the sole red herring (or sole if you wish ) that swims upstream on this thread. What the heck, someone has to play the devil's advocate now and then.
I personally wouldn't recommend that the average person work on their horn, at least at the novice to intermediate level of expertise. My wife would ring my neck if I started bending the keys on my one and only $2000 clarinet, especially since the certified Buffet repair tech is less than 5 miles away and he typically can get a lot of the little stuff done for free while I wait. Even at that, I'd still be much happier turning my horn into the certified tech for work and pay for it than take a chance at ruining my beautiful (both visually and musically) horn.
If you have years of playing experience and you are comfortable with adjusting horns and you have an old "beater" that you want to use as a Frankenstein model, that's your business. However, since a lot of younger players peruse this BBS, I'm going to put in the plea on their behalf to get a certified tech to help them adjust and repair their horns for them. It doesn't take much pressure on bending keys to ruin them both for mechanics and for intonation, especially on the student and some of the intermediate grade horns. In addition, a bunch of players like me have but only one horn that represents a once in a lifetime investment. In a nutshell, the risks are too high.
So, please keep in mind the risk versus payback idea as you take a deep look at your horn. For me, a small $25 fee for a small job and a $250 fee for a major one is a small price to pay, compared to the cost of replacing the $2000 horn.
Oh, I forgot to mention my BS in Petroleum Engineering and Master's Degree in Business (Computer Systems Procurement). So, if it ain't a 16 pound sledge hammer or a computer network, I don't mess with it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
