 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2013-12-13 22:30
In a recent conversation it came up that a clarinet, specifically an R13, with silver-plated keys will produce a different tone than one with the standard nickel plating. I play on many different clarinets and I can't say that I've noticed a difference in tone that I would attribute to key plating. What do y'all think?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-13 22:37
Keywork plating has absolutely no effect on tone.
End of discussion.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2013-12-13 23:40
Of course it has an effect on tone, just like the length of your fingers and the color of the room that you are playing in!
The choice of key material is purely for visual purposes and has no effect on the tone. If anything, a clarinet with silver keys will sound WORSE over time as silver is much softer and therefore much more likely to wear or bend. I remember reading a supposedly "scientifically accurate" article about how clarinets made with nickel-gold alloy keys were acoustically better, which was good for a laugh or two.
The only real advantage of silver keys is that the scrap value goes up over time.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-14 02:40
Umm . . . Clarinet keys are made of German silver (an alloy of copper, nickel and zinc, with *no* silver). "Silver" keys means silver plating, which uses a very small amount of silver. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt that a Buffet with silver-plated keys carries as much as one ounce of silver.
There are of course "solid" silver flutes, but they are made of sterling silver, 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper. Believe me, a silver Haynes flute lasts more or less forever. Mine is from the mid-1950s and shows zero signs of wear.
Ken Shaw
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-12-14 04:13
My BS alarm just went off.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-14 09:44
Some clarinets were made with solid silver keys, but most have keys made from nickel silver or cupronickel, then plated with copper, nickel and then silver. Likewise with the pillars which are usually nickel silver and plated with either nickel or silver to match the keywork (in most cases - some Leblancs with silver plated keys have nickel plated pillars.
Silver and nickel plate adds a durable finish to nickel silver which does wear easily. Even so, many clarinets were made with unplated keywork, some with nickel silver key pieces and solid silver key barrels. Nowadays as more and more cast pieces are being used instead of drop forged key pieces, they are much softer and more prone to wear than the much harder drop forged pieces, plus keys can be made from several different alloys and plating gives them a uniform finish instead of bronze, brass and nickel silver which are all different colours, so that wouldn't look good on a top pro clarinet.
Nickel plate is only applied very thinly (up to 5 microns) as it's a much harder metal than silver, but it can still wear out over time. Silver is applied from a minimum of 5 microns to 25 microns depending on what the maker specifies - obviously a thicker plating of silver will be more durable over time.
Gold plate is only applied to around 3 microns due to the cost.
But you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference in tone with any given keywork plating.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-14 13:21
According to Kalmen Opperman, the pre-R13 Buffets did not have cast or forged keys in which flat metal plate was bent into shape. Rather, the keys were filed from billets of German silver. It's like the top and belly of a violin, which are not steamed and molded into shape but carved from thick wood blanks.
My pre-R13 Buffets as well as my mid-1970s R13s have unplated German silver keys. In my opinion, this is the best surface, which has the ideal amount of friction. For me nickel plating is too slippery, and I'm slightly allergic to it.
As to the effect on tone, well, the placebo effect is very powerful.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-14 13:37
It seems manufacturers are taking a step back and some key pieces are being milled from solid nickel silver or brass bar - ring keys, pad cups with integral key arms and other components are being made this way with the advance in CNC milling machines that can make complex shapes. It'll only be a matter of time before they start making entire keys with key barrels from solid. Another process that can do this is 3D metal printing which will no doubt gain popularity.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-12-14 14:18
Attachment: Kruspe B_rep.jpg (207k)
Myths about clarinets were already discussed here: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=395038&t=395038 .You could as well call it "Voodoo" like with some HiFi gimmicks.
With my ancient clarinets I like unplated German silver (or with instruments from early 1800s brass) best. You can always clean and polish it without need for re- galvanizing: See Before/ after picture.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-12-15 06:35
>> As to the effect on tone, well, the placebo effect is very powerful. <<
Where can I get placebo plating...?
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-15 09:11
Tictactux. that Russian / Eastern European CSO makes the worst Chinese CSOs look like great pieces of fine art.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-15 09:31
Some DDR-era G.R.Uebel clarinets had similar stamped sheet metal keywork.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-15 14:33
I've seen some stamped metal keys. Handling the instruments in person showed that they were extremely crude and work very badly. Interesting idea, but really nasty results.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-15 17:48
I don't understand how anything involving clarinets can be considered "absolute"......except, maybe, opinions.......
Bob Draznik
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Author: joe423
Date: 2013-12-17 15:57
It's an old wive's tale IMO!
1975 Buffet R13 Bb Clarinet
1968 Buffet R13 A Clarinet
Pyne Clarion Mouthpiece
Vandoren V12 3.5 Reeds
Vandoren Optimum Ligature
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2013-12-17 16:18
@David
> The quality of the wood WILL.
perhaps they just trust silver plated keys to more experienced guy to do the work as it would be more taxing if the key overheated while setting in pad and tarnished. The difference in o'k and great sealing pad on especially on lower joint and spring adjustments could make all the difference in sound.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-18 01:21
I did find it odd that Jack Brymer says he likes nickel plate best in terms of the feel of them, but 1010s were usually silver plated.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-12-18 01:22)
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